Live 1/2 NLHE

Hero - $800 - been playing pretty straight forward, no bluffs shown, getting paid off big with nut hands
Villain 2 - $800 - good aggressive older asian, has shown a tendency to call down with 2nd pair, etc
Villain 1 - $300 - new to table, no reads

5 dollar straddle
Villain 1 - UTG - raises straddle to $25
Villain 2 - MP - calls $25
Hero - button - AA - raises to $60
Both villains flat call $60

Flop:
5 3 2 rainbow

Checks around to me:
I bet $100

Villain 1 - folds
Villain 2 - (aggro asian) raises to $250

Hero???

First and foremost hero should raise more PF, at least to 80.

As played, I think I may find a fold this deep. Your small PF re-raise left all sorts of hands in the pot that beat you. All of the sets are possible, as is a wheel.

I wouldn't be against a call on this flop though, since you have position. If he slows down on the turn, check behind. If he fires again, probably fold since your hand is almost face up.

Anyone thinking "jam" here? This may be my overplaying overpair leak, but hear me out.

We have an overpair and a gutshot. We are behind 55, 33, 22, A4, 64, 53, 52, 32.

What is Villain2 calling 30BB preflop with, given his rep of calling down with 2nd pair and being quite aggressive? Is V2 the type of player to call 30BB OOP to us with small pairs or naked aces?

I'm going to say "no" and put him on a similar type of hand to us: JJ-KK. If we jam here, how likely is he to stack off, given that 38% of his stack is already in the middle?

shove>call>fold

pre fop I'm never not makeing a pot size bet here, (at least) and that's raising 75 making it $100.

As played a 4 to spr , against an aggressive player...it's a tough spot, what i'm never doing is putting 310 into the pot of an 800 stack to fold later in this hand...

as you do have outs if he has a set...(6 is much bettor then 2 well 3 times)....so I think I'm calling or raising...and probably calling...as he can have some silly bluffs in his range as well, and he might keep it up...

Preflop I think I would raise to $100. $60 is too small, and I think even $80 might be as well given stack sizes.

As played you are in a gross spot (obviously). I don't like raising because I don't think KK/QQ make up a big portion of his range and the smaller overpairs I think he will fold often. I kind of want to fold because I think his range leans towards sets based on how he played the hand.

The minraise preflop is horrible.

Theres already 50 in the pot and your making it 60 total?

Right off the bat your laying the first raiser almost 3:1 on a call and given stack depth he can call correctly with any pocket pair, suited connectors and suited paint.

Your preflop raise needs to be around 100. This is a straddled pot which turns this hand into a 2/5 game. We still have more than 100bb in this situation and anything over 100bb is where I really dont want to stack off with only an overpair.

You say this guy is aggressive, but you say he calls down with 2nd pair? Well, what range is he betting then? You need to assign villian a range and only you can do that better than anyone here on 2p2 as youre the one with history. Is he the type to play suited aces and over value a top pair type of hand? Will he stack off with any overpair on an underboard?

But lets go ahead and assume on the conservative side that this guy will only raise with overpairs, sets, two pair combos, pair+straight draws and made straights.

Against that range we hold 65% equity. So we are looking pretty good.

But now, we have to consider what is going to happen on the turn. Are you going to get passive against this guys raise and check the turn? Because if you do you're going to get put to the test with a big bet... remember, hes aggressive. Is he going to check back the turn? No way.

Can we shove here? No. What hands are we going to get value from? Is he really going to stack off with 66 on this board? I think thats pretty doubtful.

Folding is too weak. So youre only option is to call and see what happens on the turn.

As far as what to do on the turn... I cant tell you what I would do without better reads.

Would you please stop giving him craps for his mistake on the preflop raise amount? The question is what he should do on the flop after the check-raise.

IMO, he could have anything, but the two hands that won't make a lot of sense is 46 or A4. Since you kind of minraised preflop, he could put you on two overs and put out a cbet. Both of you are 400bb deep so this is obv a tough spot. He could have 66-KK. It is not likely that asian guy had a set or straight on the flop here so I would jam. The worst case is you'll have 6 outs..otherwise you're ahead most of the time.

This is a tough spot for two reasons: raise was too small pre-flop, and $250 is a super strong bet at 1/2. No one is making a bluff here. Question to OP: have you ever seen V2 raise a continuation bet on the flop with just one pair? If yes, I would call down in position. Fold if not, as his play pre smells a lot like small pocket pairs and even A4 suited.

Your bet on the flop, did you act unsure or try to get a call? Because that makes it even worst to read. If you bet it like, "I'm not folding," his raise is super strong, and I doubt one pair is ever ahead here. Live play has to include these types of reads.

Hopefully he had a big pair and you stacked him (good thing about playing deep). If you got a good read, you may have had to fold here after betting $100 (bad/good thing about playing deep).

I don't include JJ, QQ or KK in villain's range as played pre. So jamming hardly gets you a call when you're ahead. Sorry, I think jamming is spewy.
I do agree with you that if we were looking for a call and acted weak on the flop this could be a reaction with a middle pair by a smart aggressive player putting us on ace high. Have we continuation bet before and then given up on the turn?

More likely we are looking at a small set. We have outs, but it's thin.

Raise more pre, jam flop

OK, so maybe he has 77-TT and puts us on AK/AQsuited or a similar hand.

I'm having trouble believing that this guy is set mining here. Doesn't fit the description, IMO.

But the way I play overpairs is a big leak for me, so maybe I am suggesting spew here...

We have to based our decision on what OP described. If I were in this situation I would do the same as villain. My range would be widen and if i had a hand like, 45 I would put in a raise just like Villain did to know where I'm at. Villain is OOP. Do you think he would just flat the cbet of $100 to re-evaluate on the turn?

two things:

as stated already preflop 3bet is so badly sized, your way too deep to not raise too 100-110 here you are just offering odds to set mine vs you. You cant just ignore this part and really is the biggest issue in this hand.

pushing the flop is really like the nut worst option here, think about it IF villain is bluffing or over playing 99-QQ or something similar you are just shutting him out of the hand, when you shove he has to think about folding most of that range. IF you are behind sets or A4 here then you are just gonna get snap called and good game stack.

either call or fold here, this depends on how villain values over pair type hands.

NO we will not stop giving him craps for his mistake preflop because that is where the hand started, villain has any2 that hes opening with here because folding to this bet this deep is ******ed, so we have not narrowed his hand at all from his original range, we are losing value from hands that will call. i would make it $100-110 preflop

otf this bet sizing is not big enough, again missing value and also making it so villain could possibly think our hand strength is weaker and c/r w weaker hands thinking he is good, putting us in this horrible spot. 180 in the spot i bet 130-150. villains description is not giving us enough, he calls down with 2nd pair but hes a good aggressive player? i dont understand what that means those 2 descriptions dont make sense together. if villain is capable i ship, if not i fold. we are only 160bb deep here given the straddle so its not that crazy to get it in here w 1 pr.

I don't really understand that if we somehow ascertain that this villain is making the c/r with a range of hands we do favorably vs (basically worse overpairs) why shoving would ever be the best play.

its not like we have to fade alot of outs if that's the case and you may be losing tons of value by not just flatting the c/r

If he likes to draw, he may have OESD possible w a pair (44, 45s, 34s). It's probably wishful thinking, though, and not a big enough portion of his range that warrants a shove. I'd be very nervous about shoving $800 w just a pair. If he has KK, QQ, he has very few outs, so I would try to check/call down. You said he calls too much w middle pair, so he may overvalue something like TT. You need hand history, so if he 'looks' strong you can determine if he just thinks he's strong or if he really is.

Thanks for the comments guys.

The villain did show semi-bluffs were pretty obvious on previous hands (raising on flush draws and guts shots, and pushing around his big stack then ultimately giving them up when they didn't hit to any bet on the river)...

I do not play much live.. i definitely agree on the pre-flop raising size, especially in a live game since people don't fold to small raises. I should have pumped it to about $150 and really had the villains define their handrange. My raise did absolutely nothing but bloat the pot. You are all so correct it makes me sick to think about that PF raise : (

However, for those who wish to know what happened:

I decided to jam.
The villain snap calls, says "i call, i have no pair on board" in a bad asian accent
He giggles like a little school girl when the turn brings a 6 giving him a straight
He turns over 10 4 suited (put in $800 on an open-ender)

GG

$150 would have been an excessive raise. $100 would have been nice preflop. That being said, you got it all in as a greater than 3 to 1 favorite so you should be happy with this hand.

Jamming there seemed like a great way to go because you wanted to end it there. Dude is willing to gambol so you gotta give it to him.

I absolutely hate playing with asians live. They love to gamble.

I absolutely love playing with asians live. They love to gamble.

One of the debates that seemed to be brewing on page 1 was the size of the preflop raise. With another guy really deep in the hand, I think that $100 is the minimun to raise it to. I would even raise to $125 on the logic that AA generally is on the losing end of pots in deep stacked play. Picking up the blinds/straddles/raises/calls is actually a pretty nice pot for a 1/2.

As played, I am going to shove over the top here because it sounds like this guy is a crazy asian gambler. I am not very happy about it, but i think that it has to be done. There are a lot of hands that he will be doing this with and a lot of tricky turn cards. He could have some random pair like 66-JJ or some suit connector that hit the flop. If he has a set, u still have 6 outs twice.

Edit: I guess we are going to lose a big pot with AA. lol

Why is AA on the losing end of deep stacked play?