Hero AA UTG open $10 3 calls Vil 3bets $22 Hero 4bets to $40 folds Vil flats.

Flop($110) 333

Effective stack $250

Hero ???

Villains an older thinking TAG.

Do you bet for value now or check call and bet the turn hoping to get more value from JJ-KK on the river?

bet bet bet on all streets flop bet should be about 55, if ur 4 betting, checking just says i have AA

Raise more the first time and the second time. What are stacks? Assuming that they are at least 70bbs, bet now to get AI by river.

Im thinking just the opposite. I figure cbet this flop after 4bet pre just screams AA and a thinking player may fold KK here. Possibly check call bet turn might allow villian to add JJ-KK to my 4bet range. Or am I completely wrong by thinking this way?

Why such a small 4-bet preflop?

I wanted to keep hands like 1010-KK + AK,AQ in. I felt if I 4bet to $60+ all but KK folds so I kept the 4 bet under pot but $50 would have probably accomplished the same goal while getting more value.

4bet sizing should be slightly bigger imo. Around 25bb especially since you're almost 150bb deep. Otherwise no need to get fancy, Zeebo therom definitely applies here. Bet flop for sure. If you think that somehow this guy can fold a FH if you ship a 4-T turn because "there's no way he can bluffing now" mentality might come to his mind then a check is ok although I would just bet but ship all other turns for sure imo.

I don't really see that kind of plan working. 4-bets preflop get far more attention in LLSNL than the dollar amount. Besides, personally I don't want to see a flop against 4-5 players with AA.

You will lose half the time, even though you're getting 5:1.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

4,409,862,912 games 37.483 secs 117,649,678 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.200% 52.68% 00.52% 2323099116 22930776.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 10.462% 10.34% 00.12% 455871888 5506380.00 { KK }
Hand 2: 17.098% 17.00% 00.10% 749749932 4267404.00 { QQ }
Hand 3: 15.441% 15.34% 00.10% 676642572 4267404.00 { JJ }
Hand 4: 03.799% 03.25% 00.55% 143357688 24169752.00 { AKs, AKo }

I'm really not expecting a multiway pot here. My 4bet had the intention to ISO villian. So I'm only expecting to be against one of those hands as the 3 callers would likely insta fold anything under QQ after flatting my initial pfr and now faceing a 4 bet, which they did.

PF im betting more for the 4bet. about 60 sounds good. his min 3bet is so small. also by us 4beeting so small it allows other Vils to come in 'cheaply' but the flipside to this is if you think Vil will then reshove then yea 4betting small is fine. But i doubt Vil is going for that since if he had a hand to do that he wouldnt have min 3 bet here.

as played i think the b/b/b could be ideal if we size the bets right. say 75 to lead then 75 again to look weakish then rest on river. but another line we can take is c/c flop then c/r turn or river. Vil has to be cbetting here 100% IMO.

Well then, though I don't like the 4-bet, the preflop plan did work, which is most important.

So, you engineered a $120 pot (minus rake) and $210 stacks, OOP and head up against a thinking TAG.

How did you intend to get stacks in? Seems hard to do given the flop 4-bet size. Even the $50 4-bet would have a $140 pot and $200 stacks, which is only 20% of starting stacks in.

Edit: FWIW, as played I would bet $70 OTF, shove to any raise and if called, shove the turn.

Why do so many people play big hands backwards? Now that we have stacks ninja edited into OP, I say again, raise more both time PF, bet flop. Only unpaired hand you could be facing is AK, and you're not getting any more value out of that anyway. Bet about 1/2 PSB and hope V puts you on a c-bet steal with AK and shoves his JJ, or whatever.

I think you get folds from all no pair hands with reasonable betsize, and checking:

1) gives vil opportunity to bluff
2) makes your hand look weaker if checks thru and u bet turn
3)still allows you to get full stack in easy with two bets

Id c/c flop and donk turn

why not just go ahead and announce "lol I have the nuts" bc thats what you'd be doing

make the 4-bet to 70 preflop

As played:

nonchalantly throw a single $25 chip into $110 on the flop
bet another single $25 chip into $160 on the turn
shove $160 into $210 on the river

they don't fold QQ in this spot

1)OP says villain is a thinking tag, so when we check he most likely checks behind.

2) when you mini 4 bet, your hand screams KK+. And no matter what you do a thinking TAG is going to put you on KK+. I have never seen anyone 4 betting (without being all in) at this limits.

3) when you mini raise/3bet/4bet you only give villain great odds to call you with any 2 cards, and you only get a lot of action when you are beat.

4) would you ever do this with AK?

If anything I would bet flop, check turn, thin value bet river, so that villain can find a crying call with JJ or QQ.

If u check and play he will fold turns or rivers 100%, the line you want to take is such a bad line because it screams nuts, u have to bet bet bet, if opp has 1010+ hell call min 2 streets, if u bet 2/5-3/5 pot each time hell call every street

n how does QQ or KK ever fold they will just check/call each street n sigh on river n make a decision

Villain is aware of the fact that he could be up against a better overpair.
if you check flop to him, he may elect to bet or take a pot control line
But he will check/call bets on all streets.
B/b/b seems ideal

- 4bet larger
- bet flop as to not allow him to check behind with lower pairs
- can bet small/small/small or bet/shove turn

?

PS- there are 8 AK combos, 6 KK, 6 QQ and 8 AQ + randoms (he obv calls min4b w/entire range and cant discount a light 3b or sqz cant remember op. Not saying this part of range is fully there but have to acct for nonzero amount ldo)

Seems like a mix bag of answers here... Although the majority say 4bet larger and cbet for value to get it in by river.

Results:

Hero cbet $40 Villian tanks for about a minute and folds disgustedly


*Villian said to his neighbor "wow, why would he play it that way..... I think he had JJ. I folded AK"


I elected to put in a smaller sized cbet in hopes to get 3 streets of value from JJ-KK.

Villains reluctance to call a 1/3 PSB on the flop illustrates the problem with your 4-bet size. Now if you 4-bet too much, you take the pot preflop and if you flat the 3-bet, you may very well see the flop multi-way.

Interesting that the villain put you on JJ and called the 4-bet with AK. Quite possibly he was reading the under-repped 4-bet and only called because of position and intended to fold to any flop wiff.

Remember this guy and see if you can use this information he so kindly provided against him in some future hand.

I was obv right

With all the dead money in, I make it at least 65 pre.
As played, i'd bet 50 on the flop, 75 on the turn, 125 on the river.