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1/2 A10 vs flop donk 1/2 A10 vs flop donk

09-05-2014 , 12:58 AM
Hero is a young white hoodie wearing male ($245). Been at the table for about two hours. 3bet once out of the small blind, but besides that not played many pots. Hasn't been to showdown once with villain at the table (besides pots limped to me in the BB).

Villain is a middle aged Asian man ($225). He has limp called quite a few times and has just recently been sucked out on AA vs Q9o when Q9 turned a straight on a K105J3 board (Q9 guy was tilting and limp called UTG, called a cbet with a gutshot and ripped the J turn lol), but he doesn't seem to be tilting at all. He has been in two pots with Hero, both of which he limp called and then folded to Hero's cbets.

Straddled pot 7handed (Villain is straddler). UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, Hero raises to $17 with A10o in MP and Straddler and UTG call.

($54) Flop comes down AQ9cc and Villain quickly donks for $25. Gets to Hero who thinks for a bit before raising to $75. Villain asks how much and quickly calls. (Hero does not have a club)

($204) The turn is an offsuit 6 and Villain checks to Hero, all the while staring a whole in Hero's forehead. With just a little over a half sized pot behind, what is Hero's play?
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09-05-2014 , 01:16 AM
Raising flop to not shove here is really bad.

How big was the straddle? $4? If so, with 2 limpers you need to make it like $25 preflop. Also, you didnt tell us much about V. How loose is he pre?

I assume UTG folded. Im not sure I like any raise other than an all in otf. Pot sized raise would be 125, leaving a pointless 80 behind. Either decide now if you are ahead of his range and jam, or fold. Flatting and seeing what he does ott isnt bad, but in these cases where there are no turn cards I really like, I want to make my decision on the flop. If i flop its with the intent to call off my stack on most runouts. If V is passive I just fold. Aggro im shoving if I think his range is draw heavy, or calling down.
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09-05-2014 , 01:18 AM
Raise more pre in a straddled pot.

I don't like the flop raise much, but once you make that raise you've essentially decided to shove all safe turns. This turn is as safe as it gets, shovel it in.
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09-05-2014 , 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss

How big was the straddle? $4? If so, with 2 limpers you need to make it like $25 preflop. Also, you didnt tell us much about V. How loose is he pre?
Straddle to $4. I hadn't played a bunch with him, but he didn't seem incredibly loose. He was mostly limp/calling, not raising very much, and he hadn't shown down many hands.
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09-05-2014 , 01:33 AM
If you're raising the flop I'd follow through and shove ott.

I probably wouldn't raise otf though. JT and A8- are the hands we'd be targeting. It's not too wet of a board but there's not a ton worse than AT that will lead/call.

Something important to not about the background hand though. Depending on the stack sizes, V might be one of those guys who can't fold AA no matter what and that's a great thing to know about people. I've seen AA plenty of times bet a flop, bet ott and get shoved on and tank call and the turn made the other guy's hand almost every time.
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09-05-2014 , 01:48 PM
Hero thinks for maybe 10 seconds before checking back turn.

River is a complete brick. Villain again quickly checks, Hero ?

Does anything change otr? Seems consensus I should have shoved turn. After checking back though, is river a shove or a check back?
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09-05-2014 , 02:38 PM
Nope, check it back now. Why the flop raise, for value or as a bluff? Pre, make it bigger with 2 limpers.
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09-05-2014 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
Nope, check it back now. Why the flop raise, for value or as a bluff? Pre, make it bigger with 2 limpers.
For value and to take initiative as I didn't want to be blown off the best hand if a club hit. But I didn't think he would call with worse if I jammed, hence the check back.
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09-05-2014 , 03:52 PM
Interesting hand, only because you took a non conventional line with the best hand. Unless he had a weirdly played AJ, the flush draw makes sense. You lost value on the turn I think.
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09-05-2014 , 03:58 PM
I might just call the flop. Let him barrel the turn (and call.) Your raise on the flop probably won't make the draw go away, and won't make very many better hands fold.

But unless your read is amazing, why go too nuts with top pair?
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09-05-2014 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynsimple
But unless your read is amazing, why go too nuts with top pair?
Adding to that, why go nuts preflop w/ A10o from MP? You aren't going to like it if you get called, and you aren't consistently outmaneuvering anybody w/ 50bb effective stacks. It isn't that you played badly, but each street seemed pretty marginal.

You would have gotten stacked if V had AJ or AQ, both more likely than a FD. (Unless you had a strong bet-sizing read.) Pre, you had a ton of people left to act behind you too.
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09-05-2014 , 06:36 PM
After V checks turn and river I'd bet, I don't think a shove gets called by worse. You have like $150 left, pot is near $200. What do you beat? Worse Ax. What will worse Ax call?, I'd bet like $60-$75.

That one bullet c/r otf is usually a bluff, a lot of times they fire a second poorly-sized bullet otr. I don't even think betting this river is that thin. Is AK or any 2pair hand only going for one street? If you are beat it'll be by AJ.
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09-05-2014 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
After V checks turn and river I'd bet, I don't think a shove gets called by worse. You have like $150 left, pot is near $200. What do you beat? Worse Ax. What will worse Ax call?, I'd bet like $60-$75.

That one bullet c/r otf is usually a bluff, a lot of times they fire a second poorly-sized bullet otr. I don't even think betting this river is that thin. Is AK or any 2pair hand only going for one street? If you are beat it'll be by AJ.
He lead/called, he didn't c/r.
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09-05-2014 , 09:34 PM
^ Mixed it up with another thread. I'd still bet otr, same size. Just not the classic 1-bullet, "let's c/r the flop c-bettor because the c-bettor never hits the flop "line.
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09-05-2014 , 09:50 PM
If we don't shove the turn I hate raising the flop.
He will alwys call with flush draws, straight draws and possible worse Aces on the turn.
Gii.
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09-05-2014 , 10:31 PM
I can answer this definitively if I knew which middle aged Asian it was. ;-)
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09-05-2014 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
If we don't shove the turn I hate raising the flop.
He will alwys call with flush draws, straight draws and possible worse Aces on the turn.
Gii.
Yeah that seems to be the consensus, but do you prefer calling down to raising? Also are you calling down most turns and rivers?
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09-05-2014 , 11:51 PM
Shove turn.

As played bet big on river.

Flop raise is good as villains hand is probably weighted more towards weak aces or draws because of the smallish bet size. People with monsters on drawy boards tend to bomb pots, assuming he thinks AK+ is a monster. Flop size is good as it allows us to get stacks in on turn where villian will probably feel priced in to call it off with Ax and draws.
I'd be raise-folding flop.

Turn is a shove for the reasons outlined above. He probably 3bets flop or donks larger with AK+ so we only lose to AJ and his range is drawings Ax. He's got a lot of Ax because he's getting a cheap price to defend his straddle with so many others in the pot.

As played, I'm betting as much as I think villian would call with Ax.
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