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1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? 1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players?

05-08-2011 , 11:29 AM
Typical loose passive table pre-flop, mostly fit or fold postflop.

V1 (BB) New to table, hadn't seen him do much for 1st 2 orbits.
V2 (MP) likes to see flops, bets draws.
V3 (CO) Weak player, not playing a lot of hands, but limp overcalls.

My image - Tight preflop, playing fairly short, had taken down a couple of pots in the previous hour by shoving flop. Didn't show, but had the goods each time.

I have ~$150, all villains cover.

3 limpers to me.
I make it $12 w/88 on the button.
SB folds.
V1 (BB) makes it $32.
V2 calls.
V3 calls.

pot $106

I assume V1 3-bet range has me crushed. Likely AK or bigger PP.

The overlimping to a 3 bet is pretty extreme even for this table, but I don't think V2 or V3 have much.

Can I call another $20 with only $140 here, hoping to hit my set? Or if flop is checked around, I can plan to shove with low boards.

Or do I just fold to the 3bet and pick a better spot.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 11:48 AM
Call.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 03:00 PM
yeah i hate burning likely $20 but call you have the right odds
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 08:19 PM
The pf bump to 12 is reasonable but I prefer just limping with these stack sizes. If you were deeper then I like the bump more but at these tables most people will just call and if you hit the set it is more likely someone will stack off but if you don't then your cbet often won't take it down, You don't have the odds to setmine with extra 20, you are calling off 13.3 percent more of your stack, more than 5 percent is questionable and more than 10 percent is almost always a bad idea. You have position and there is dead money which miitigates it but it is still too much.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 09:03 PM
Will you make $160 on avg. if you flop a set?

(Dont answer that too quickly. You have to take into acct. all the times you flop a set and lose too)

That answer gives you your answer.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captfunk99
The pf bump to 12 is reasonable but I prefer just limping with these stack sizes. If you were deeper then I like the bump more but at these tables most people will just call and if you hit the set it is more likely someone will stack off but if you don't then your cbet often won't take it down, You don't have the odds to setmine with extra 20, you are calling off 13.3 percent more of your stack, more than 5 percent is questionable and more than 10 percent is almost always a bad idea. You have position and there is dead money which miitigates it but it is still too much.
This is really important and you need to ask yourself when you sit down to play a session if you are going to maintain a nice deepstack to be able to make the proper pot odds/implied odds to call in these instances knowing the % of the stack it is of yours to be able to get max value or not.

If you are playing a session with a limited bankroll(not optimal obv) or purposely shortstacking, then your decisions should be made based on that. In this case, overcalling preflop might make more sense to ensure you are getting the correct odds to set mine vs iso-raising the button.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-08-2011 , 11:28 PM
I find a call here. Villain will be OOP with a likely big hand and will lead any flop (unless he has KK and an ace spikes). You have 2 other opponents to help give you odds. I call as you can most likely easily get all in on a flop with a set.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
Will you make $160 on avg. if you flop a set?

(Dont answer that too quickly. You have to take into acct. all the times you flop a set and lose too)

That answer gives you your answer.
I think the answer is yes. $100 in the pot already and if you hit a set you'd have to be really unlucky if at least one of the villains doesn't have enough of a hand to stack off with given stack sizes. I call, but remind myself that I'm set-mining and don't convince myself to spew off the rest of my stack if I only have a pair on the flop.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 08:15 AM
Given that your getting a great price to call the 3b with 3 other callers is great for you. But like others said, you should buy in to the full amount to cover everyone else to at least 100bb's.

Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with limping behind with small to mid pp's when there are limpers behind
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 08:19 AM
i'd call and re-evaluate flop. Your small stack size is against you though. You wouldn't want to get much more short stacked and call $32 pf to an aggressor. You should be looking for hands to double up.

I'm not surprised to hear that 2 villains limped and called a $32 re-raise. I see this all the time where I play. I'm always shocked and baffled by Villains thought process here. There hand isn't good enough to raise pf so they just limp and then call another $29 to see a flop.

I call it the "Have to see a flop just in case mentality".
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 09:37 AM
Call.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 09:51 AM
this is a NO BRAINER fold. If you look at holdem manager/poker tracker statistics calling here is a -EV play. This would not be profitable until you're dealing w/200 bb stacks. (even JJ losses money in the long term by calling a three bet under 200bb.) At best you are looking to play against two overs which would basically be a flip, or villian has an OP and you're crushed. Fold now wait for a better hand.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 12:59 PM
I don't like the original raise at this table. I mean, we just had 2 guys call a limp/3bet; obviously our initial raise here is not going to limit the field at all, so all we're doing is creating a bloated multi-way pot here, and 88 is basically going to hate every single flop save for the ones that have an 8 on it. Preflop is pretty easy limp behind at this table, IMO.

Once we get ourselves into this mess, I call the 3bet. We're getting immediate odds of 5:1 so we're a few bets short of the immediate odds we need. But although stack sizes vs raise size ain't nowhere near where we'd usually like, by the looks of things we're going to stack villain's big pocket pair here most times if we flop a set; plus it's a multiway pot (likely that we're gonna stack someone if we hit), plus we have the best seat in the house (the button being the easiest position to extract value postflop). So I call and kick myself for my original raise.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 01:04 PM
If you are going to raise, make it $20
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote
05-09-2011 , 04:36 PM
Thanks, good points all around.

I should have just limped preflop with that stack size, especially at a table with near zero fold equity preflop.

As played, I called the reraise, flop was AQx, BB leads out, and takes it down.
1/2 - 88 on Button, Can I Call pre to close out 3bet w 3 players? Quote

      
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