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1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? 1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played?

01-07-2021 , 08:36 PM
1/2/5, 9 handed, $300 effective (hero covers.) Villain is loose, leans slightly more to the passive side, definitely a losing player but also knows all of the poker vocabulary and has clearly studied poker theory at least a little bit. Hero has a TAG, winning image to villain.

OTTH

Straddle is +2 this hand, tight passive limps LJ, villain limps HJ, hero raises CO $35 A K, relatively unknown but early reads are break-evenish LAG calls BTN, and villain calls.

Flop ($118): Q 9 8. Villain checks, hero bets $40, BTN folds, villain calls.

Turn ($198): J. Villain checks. Would shoving here ($225 bet) be standard or a punt?
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-07-2021 , 08:45 PM
I think a shove is fine here...I prefer a bigger bet on flop like ~$75 and then a less then pot sized shove on turn.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-08-2021 , 01:19 AM
Super standard shove spot.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-08-2021 , 06:15 AM
Turn shove is good, getting folds from any hand is a big win
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-08-2021 , 07:09 PM
Whoops... I was about to criticize this shove, but then saw we also have the nut heart draw. Definitely a standard shove.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-09-2021 , 02:23 AM
Didn't realize SPR was 2ish. Bet small is good.

Last edited by DooDooPoker; 01-09-2021 at 02:40 AM.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-13-2021 , 05:44 PM
I go bigger on the flop unless I'm hoping for a raise on flop to gii or my plan is to jam almost any turn, so jam is good.

In general, though, I go bigger on flop.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-16-2021 , 02:13 PM
Here's my read on loose-passive Villain.


PRE-FLOP

Limp-calling leaves 22-JJ, lots of speculative hands, and a substantial amount of weakness, but not pure garbage like 83o.




FLOP

After check-calling the flop, villain's range has a lot of one-pair hands and drawing hands and a small number of better hands since villain leans towards passive. The majority of suited hands at this point would be two hearts.




TURN

I don't know how to adjust the range for villain after the turn check.

If villain is passive, there could be a LOT of tens in villain's range; ~35% of their hands and then there's another ~15% of two pair and set hands. I'm not sure what the optimal play is, but I don't see how this can be a "standard shove" against a passive villain given other options like betting 50% pot or 70% pot or taking a free card. How do you know a shove is optimal?

Of course, this depends on how many tens you've removed from villain's range after each check. What would you do?

1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-16-2021 , 07:09 PM
I'm torn. There are spots where super loose villains have just tons of good hands. This might be one of them because he can have so much more Tx than us (good point Wanda) as he got priced in by button flat. However, you have lots of outs when called and if I were to start picking combos to bluff what 1 combo is better than this? Maybe AJhh to block JT and have the heart draw. Or maybe you don't want Ah here at all because you don't want to block AXhh in his range because he can fold that to the odds we'll give and will be folding Ahi v our Khi so maybe KJhh>AKhh for the big bluff? A T doesn't give KJ the nuts but I don't think KX other than KT can call our shove.

I think we're very strapped for Tx while a lots of loose villains can have it here so we need to be careful with picking our bluffs. Straddle makes effective stack about 60bbs and we are looking at a 7x open. Are we blasting like this pre with ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs? ATs I think yes. The others seem very marginal.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-18-2021 , 01:29 AM
I prefer larger sizing on flop, like 60, makes turn shove a little easier. Obv V gonna have a lot of T's in his range but fuggit, we're playing half stacked basically with multiple draws and overs. It is what it is.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote
01-18-2021 , 01:50 AM
Wouldn't mind a check on this flop (piling vs btn bet and any action). Agree with others should be a larger sizing when we do bet. Small sizing makes no sense.

Shove OTT can't be that bad as we have decent equity vs calling range, and can obv get some better hands to fold. However, I think villain should have a lot more Tx than we do, so I would probably check and realize my equity. I assume made hands (2 pair+) jam flop along with flush draws sometimes on this wet board. Like yeah it sucks when we check, river bricks and he show A9o or some garbage like 87, but that's not happening too often IMO.
1/2/5 AK - Is Shoving The Turn Here A Punt, Or Well Played? Quote

      
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