Reads: Young, is the only one at the table with an alcoholic beverage. This is his 2nd or 3rd hand at the table, complete unknown.

Effective stacks: $150

Couple of limpers, villain completes SB, I raise to $12 in the BB with AQ, only villain calls. Flop comes KQ5. Villain bets $20 I call (please no ridiculous comments saying fold flop). Standard so far...

Turn is K. Villain bets $30, hero? If you've read PNLHE by Ed Miller, we want to avoid making or calling a large bet after about $15 goes into this pot. Also, we want to avoid putting in more than 1/3 of our stack before folding, which is $50. So we need to call this turn even though we aren't committed, correct?

Hero calls, river is 6, villain bets $40. Hero? Comments on all streets welcome.

Flop is fine.

Turn is a fold. There is little air in his range on this flop texture, and even if he has air we cant call a big river bet or river shove. sure-- hes an unknown, but he is likely capable of seeing that this flop smashes your raising range pf. Even if we assume hes young and capable of semi-bluffing j10 otf.. how often is he continuing on the turn? Not often.

I cant see us beating anything but j10ss or air ott.

AP i call OTR

Goddamn you deserved to be banned, raise more pre fish. If that's going to be the answer to every thread you post why don't you raise more pre? Looooool, you're so bad you'l never learn.

cmon man this is not needed.

More pre is correct, especially for a couple of limpers and the SB.

Overall, I think villain doesn't donk out here without a king very often. when he does, i don't think he triple barrels with air very often. I'd fold somewhere, likely the river.

More info on villain: I took a glance at him preflop. His eyes were kinda red and I think he might have been drinking before he got to the table. Do you guys find players who drink at the table are a little looser and more aggro and capable of bluffing?

If villain were a 60 hero old, quiet guy then I'd think his range is much more strongly K-X.

Also, note his bets are actually really tiny on all streets but the flop. By calling turn, I'm not putting in over 1/3 of my stack. You guys have read PNLHE by Miller, right? Putting in over 1/3, then folding is a mistake usually. Here I'll have put in exactly 1/3 by calling turn, so I can fold river if he shoves. But then he bets tiny again on the river.

I think I fold OTT when I'm UI and I don't have any info on the kid. Donk bet looks like KJ, K10, K9.

Ok so we def need to raise more pre. I know it has already been said above but that was the first thing that popped in my head as i was reading your post so i will restate.

Without any reads i am calling the turn and looking to get to showdown. Villain will not bet worse on the river after you call twice and the top pair becomes trips on the turn. If villain bets river, fold.

Why do you hate this guy so much?

*Please only answer this question if you've read Professional No Limit Hold'em by Miller*

Basically, what I asked in my previous post was can we treat this hand the same as if we have TPTK, but missed our target SPR? For example, say our target SPR for TPTK against him is 4.5, but we end up with an SPR of 8 on the flop. We aren't committed, but we still have a good hand that wants to get to showdown in this case. Can we play 2nd pair, GK the same way we play TPTK w/ a botched SPR?

If the answer is yes, then we should be calling turn and river here, right?

[I haven't read the Miller thingy]

In HOC I believe it argues (I'm paraphrasing) that we should make some weak calldowns early against unknowns that may be -EV in the actual moment but will hopefully be far more +EV for the session because we want to get a read on this guy ASAP.

Turn bet is a little less than 1/2 the pot, and the river bet is a little less than 1/3 of the pot, offering us over 4:1. We have a TPTK in a HU pot, there's two of the top card on board (making it less likely the villain has one, although I might be getting the math wrong on that), plus he donked into us on the flop (most donks don't with a made hand here against a preflop raiser).

I call down and make a note; the sooner we can make that note, the better.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Gobble, you're one of the better posters here so thnx for the advice. This is the first reply that was more than a few sentences. I think what you're saying though applies to spots in limped pots, where the decision may be -EV by like no more than $5. Here, it's a fairly large sized pot so it's more important to make the correct decision than gain information. Calling might be a big mistake if his range is almost 100% K-X.

When you called turn, you knew what spot you were going to be in on the river because the board isn't going to change very often. What were you planning to do on A rivers, K rivers, Q, J x x x x x x x x x etc.? Are you calling on Q rivers? What if his range is likee Kx, 55, J10o, J-10s?

Do you think hes donk-bet bluffing into the PFR with air? QJs? He limp calls and sees a KQ5r flop and thinks 'oooo, this is just the type of flop that is good for bluffing since he raised preflop.' i doubt they are taking such a line with worse queens either but then again anythings possible.

Don't mind peeling off the flop in case hes taking one shot at it/ we turn him but when he barrels the turn it offers no prospect for profit, we are calling for the pot but we are going to have to call bigger bets later and i think after the turn we can ditch it. In your foresight for the hand you can see the commitment threshold, you specifically mention commitment... Have you ever re-read your threads? Whatever, **** man, learn fundamentals.

From the forum rules:
I am Near, your second post has some value to it, but still ends poorly. Your first post was completely out of line.

I have not read Miller in a long time, but I'm more worried about the 3 streets of donking here than SPRs. I fold turn here. AP, gotta make a crying call on river.

Results: Hero calls. Villain shows J7.

I agree with raising bigger pre.

Flop is fairly dry, what exactly is villain repping by donking here? Most villains would X/C or X/R a big hand on a flop like this I think.

Turn K makes it less likely that he has a K in his hand so what are we behind? The unusual Kx, 55, what else?

OTR, his bet is so small it seems fishy. I know you showed results already but in my mind the only FD that he could have would be JTss or maybe possibly A5ss. With it being such a small bet I'm saying F it and calling.

Edit: And I am near, gfy. There's really no need for comments like that ESPECIALLY when you're ****ing wrong!!! Even if you were right those types of posts are not constructive at all. Does it make you feel better about your life by trying to be a condescending prick (who happens to be completely wrong in this case) to people on the internet. Go back to NVG or something

Results are surprising.

I'm still in the camp that a random isn't donk bet double barreling air often on a KQ5r flop vs a preflop aggressor. I think, optimistically, his range is J10ss, A5ss, 5% air (yay), KQ-K8, AQ, QJ, 55. I also think when we call the turn he is firing almost every river (I would have guessed for more than 1/3.5 of the pot, too.)

So were looking at $75-125 to win $143-193.. need more than 30% equity here.

I suppose if your read on his drunkness/youngness brings his air closer to 10% you can find a call...

You don't know him well enough to call. Bragging about a bad call is silly.