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1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? 1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd?

12-21-2014 , 10:02 PM
This could be a standard spot for most, i'm not sure. Setting is the local casino around 3a.m.

Hero ($550ish) - MP. Young, black, dreads, wearing a hoodie and headphones connected to iPad with a movie playing. My table just broke so i've moved to another, only notice one person, everyone is unknown and i should be unknown to them.

Vil 1(covers) - BB. Black, looks to be in his 40s. I think he's drunk but not 100% sure, its just from the way he's talking and the beer i notice in front of him. Made a note about hero coming to the table with headphones, "looks like the type to have headphones on but have the volume all the way low(I just lol' d but he did comment on this more than once).

Vil 2($150ish) - SB. Young, black, not to relevant to the hand.

Ive been at the table for about one orbit , not too much happened during this time, just a bunch of limped pots, not too much action from either of the V's, table is 10 handed and then we have...

Hero is dealt TdTs in MP. One call to H and H raises to 14. Folds to V2 who calls, V1 calls, original limper folds.

Flop ($40ish) - Ad3d3h

V2 checks, V1 checks, H cbets 20, V2 calls, V1 raises to 50, H does....? V1 does mention everyone having top pair while checking but I just ignore him because I still think he's somewhat drunk/buzzed, not sure if his statement should factor in?
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-21-2014 , 10:37 PM
Absent any reads I just fold. Nitty, yes, but if this guy is hammered you'll get more chances to get at his stack. And for god sake turn off the movie!!! You'll never get better reads if you're watching The Princess Diaries at the table!

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1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-21-2014 , 10:42 PM
I just fold here.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-21-2014 , 10:55 PM
Fold. These V's usually just tell us what they have by their bets. You get checked raised with an A and two 3's on the board he has some of that. The check raise would lean me a bit toward the 3 as many times they lead out with the A to "see where i'm at". Take things at face value for the average V. He is saying "I am strong". Don't level yourself into something else.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-21-2014 , 11:55 PM
I'm guessing you didn't fold. I think it is a fold though. If you folded nh, if not...well should get interesting.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-21-2014 , 11:58 PM
Fold
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 12:39 AM
Just curious to see how people respond in a hand like this
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
no real reads
Quote:
Hero ($550ish) - MP. Young, black, dreads, wearing a hoodie and headphones connected to iPad with a movie playing.
hmmm

Yeah I know you were paying some attention and it has only been one orbit but you're still missing a lot doing this

I'd just check the flop multiway. Checking flop doesn't mean we're giving up on the hand but betting just puts us in a dumb spot where we're owning ourself against better a lot and not getting a whole lot of value from worse. Also if you think about players preflop ranges, a lot of people play a disproportionate amount of Ax -- so checking here isn't just because there's an overcard, it's that it's the ace (which people have often) and because it's a paired board (not because we're scared of 3x, but because there's no 2nd pair to get value from)

As played I fold, his range should be Ax, 3x, and flush draws. If he has a stone cold bluff here gg and that's another reason to check flop -- betting puts yourself in a spot where you can't profitably bluffcatch, where you might have actually been able to call down had you checked and gotten another street of information.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 01:20 AM
I think it's a pretty easy fold. With the Ad on the board and the ten in your hand there just isn't that many likely flush draws.

Even if you're ahead now over 72% of the time you'll see a bad card (diamond or a J/Q/K) on the turn or river.

Whether to check behind on the flop or not: As the pre-flop raiser with 44 I'm betting virtually all the time. With kings I'm betting very rarely. Kings are a way-ahead/way-behind situation. With fours almost every card is a dangerous overcard in a multi-way pot.

With tens I could go either way. Probably checking more than betting though I don't mind your half-pot bet.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 01:29 AM
Whether or not to c-bet can be a lively debate, but you might as well have just turned your hand face up with that c-bet. C-betting only 1/2 pot screams "I don't have an ace or 3, but I raised pre, so I guess I've gotta c-bet, so here ya go..."

And you look like a douche with hoodie/headphones. Noone is impressed, you're not really concealing any tells (especially with this kind of bet-sizing), and you're depriving yourself valuable clues about your opponents with needless distractions. Personally, I'd have gone South during the table change, as shallower stacks are easier to play against unknowns.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 01:44 AM
Eh, I don't mind the cbet size. On a paired flop, I'm usually only betting half pot with my AK/AQ/AJ hands.

This is a must-fold, though. V2 has already called you, which is a likely ace, three, or flush draw. And V2 has already committed 20% of his stack to this hand, so the raise from V1 is noteworthy. This isn't a great spot for a squeeze play (barring other reads, which I suppose V1 has on V2...). So V1 is announcing that he doesn't mind gii for V2's stack.

Calling would be terrible here, because when V2 overcalls, the pot will be $190 and he'll only have $90 left. (Good luck getting him to fold an ace, 3, or solid draw at that point.) So your options are to raise or fold. Raising sucks here, because V1 can convince himself you're on the nut flush draw if he has a good ace, and convince himself that he has fold equity against your "obvious" AK if has the nut flush draw (because he's pretty sure you don't have a 3 as the pfr).

Best-case-scenario is that both players are on a flush draw, but that's a pretty rosy scenario. And even in that scenario, they probably have overs to your 10s, so you'll have to dodge a lot of the deck.

TL;DR: raising in this spot turns your hand into a bluff, while not telling a compelling story with that bluff. That's a bad spot. Fold and move on.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 06:50 AM
^^^ I know we cbet 1/2 pot on this texture with Ax type of hands too, but can it be better to just go ahead and bet 2/3 pot ALWAYS to avoid getting bluffed?
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 08:55 AM
I also think its a crying fold because we have only a bluff cather and we are behind even if he does not have the ace but the nut flush draw. he never folds there imo.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 11:00 AM
Easy fold. Next hand.
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote
12-22-2014 , 03:46 PM
Thanks for the responses yall
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12-22-2014 , 03:51 PM
Ask him to see one if you fold
1/2 250+bb deep, no real reads, wwyd? Quote

      
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