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1-1 - First live cash session - some hands 1-1 - First live cash session - some hands

06-26-2013 , 07:13 PM
First time I've played live cash and I lost two buy-ins = sad times. Playing 5-handed (yup, not ideal). A few hands I wasn't sure about:

#1 - I have ATdd OTB. Folds to me. I make it 3 (open raise sizing seemed to vary across the table, but I should've made it bigger as I would've got called anyway). ABC SB calls, fish in BB calls. Board is KQJr - yatzhee. I c-bet to 7. SB calls, BB folds. Turn is the Qs, so the board has two spades. This is where my question comes in - is it really nitty to check back here? Should I still be betting for value? If I'm playing microstakes online I think I always barrel, but maybe without even thinking it through. I think a lot of his range on that flop is two pair, so either he's turned a full-house or his KJ is counterfeited. Then lots of other hands that might call the flop will often fold the turn - AK, T9, etc.

#2 - A bit later I'm down to ~70bb and ever so slightly tilted by this point. Folds round to the maniac in SB who checks. I make it 4. He makes it 9. I call with KJcc - am I playing too fancy here? He's REALLY aggro and I feel I'm ahead of his range often. It heads to the flop and he sheepishly smiles at me. Flop is QT4hh. He checks, I bet 12, he makes it 24. I think he seems nervous, so I tank-shove thinking that even if he calls I have outs, but I think he can have air here (i.e. I definitely think I have fold equity). He insta-calls. Turn is a 2 and he flips over 22 for the set. He says he thought I was shoving with a draw so thought the 2s were good - I guess he was right!

Was this entire hand too spewy? I feel I can justify each action, but overall it's probably FPS. Should I just be avoiding these spots altogether? I got my money in with 57% equity, but maybe that doesn't matter. I should just be looking for better spots?

#3 - BvB, me versus maniac again. I have KTs. He raises to 4. I call. He bets J42r flop. I feel he's betting with his entire range, so float. Turn is a brick. He checks and I bet 2/3s PSB. He calls. River is a Q and he leads smallish. I've seen him bluff several rivers already with total air this evening and sort of feel my K-high is good often enough to call. He has AQ. I say I had a J and he says he was surprised I didn't snap-call. Once again, FPS?

#4 - Next hand. I have 26bb left (not rebuying). Folds to him, and he makes it 3 OTB. I shove w/ AKo and he calls with TT. Game over. G-bucks for me or spewy shove?

So, I'm not going to lie to myself - there's definitely some bad play here. Plus I just generally think I was a bit too passive with some of my calls preflop and then folds post-flop. I also think I need to make a few adjustments to live (didn't help it was short-handed), but raise bigger for value, check behind more often, maybe even check behind on turns when I would've bet for value online. What do you guys think? Should I have just tightened up?

Incidentally, I definitely had an imagine of being 'tight' anyway. There was one loose guy playing, who actually seemed to be a good hand reader (made a few big folds). I OR KTo in CO. He calls in BB. Flop is ATT. I bet, he calls. Turn is a brick. I bet, he thinks then folds saying he's folding an ace - good spot to check back OTT or am I being results orientated?

TL;DR - live is weird, OP was confused .
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-26-2013 , 07:47 PM
1- bet looks good
3- fold flop; "maniac" doesnt raise 22 but has worse than KT here? What did you think he had? FPS this isn't online players are much more passive.
2- nice read. STD I think.
4- meh... rebuy, I prob 3 bet but not shove but whatever. He calls with worse a lot.

If you are an online player, you'll need to realize live players play much more loose passive than online. Oh, and your fold equity is non existent.

Good luck next time.
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-26-2013 , 08:07 PM
hand 2, thank him for getting his money in even though you lost. you're about 55 percent on that flop. even if he thinks you have what you have, he's behind.
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-26-2013 , 08:18 PM
Hand 1: Bet turn for value, but once the board pairs be happy when villain folds. Your hand still has a lot of value but river play can be very tricky and situational.

Hand 2: Very villain dependent situation. The key lesson here is that a lot of these aggro maniacs think other people are shoving draws all the time, so don't shove draws against them unless you have a lot of equity because they will call a lot. As played the shove was OK but only because he has such a low pair, if he had a better hand your equity would be much worse.

Hand 3: Against a maniac who calls and bets light don't try to take pots with air. Fold a lot preflop and on flop and wait till you actually have some value. The turn bet isn't terrible once he checks, but when he leads river after calling your turn his river isn't going to be a bluff very often unless you are in some sort of bluffing war. That is an entirely different mess and you should avoid doing that till your experienced will live play.

Hand 4: Toss-up. I prefer a 3 bet rather then a shove because the shove is going to fold some hands that you want to call. However, your probably losing your stack here either way. You need to 3 bet to $10-$12 against a manaic who will probably see the flop with nearly ATC, and you will have to c-bet the rest unless flop is ugly.
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-26-2013 , 10:15 PM
Quite a few exciting hands for short handed play ... too bad your first live session was not a positive outcome. I'm not sure if it was just maniac being maniac or if they really had a good read on your play somehow being new to live.

Hand 1: A little bit here depends on stack sizes, but you would normally keep firing here OOP but IP OTB you can check it through for pot control as long as you intend on calling most River bets. Your hand really cant improve here so a little caution would not be held against you since your very well could be in b/f mode here and be forced out of the hand by a raise from a naked Queen.

Hand 2: Dont mind the shove here, but the tank gave it away. When you play an unknown opponent like this and you tank they will always think draw. The longer the tank the more you need to smooth here and shove any 'safe' Turn. Unfortunately the hand wouldve played the same as the set came on the Turn, but in most cases you show more strength by calling and betting again rather than shoving.

Hand 3: Just tough luck here ... gotta go with your read plus you dont need to show your cards!!

Hand 4: Nothing wrong with flipping for less than 30 bb ... especially when it looks tilty.

Tough to play tight short handed, even in 1-1, not sure how long your session was either. But generally short handed the more aggressive player wins the pots and all you need to do is hit the Flop. Donk betting is gernerally more necessary as well. For these hands to all show up was a pretty hot deck ... unless it was over 4 hours of play or something like that. Sounds like you have a handle on the game ... just lay low until you get your feet wet, probably less raising and just wait for the deck to hit you a bit but these hands generally look fine. GL
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-27-2013 , 11:56 AM
Thank you for all the comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nddst
3- fold flop; "maniac" doesnt raise 22 but has worse than KT here? What did you think he had? FPS this isn't online players are much more passive.
I agree that that seems illogical, but I don't think he necessarily has 'logical' ranges. He did limp-3bet those 2s after all. I'm sure he can have air here, in his raising range. You're right though - fold flop is probably correct, no need to get fancy. Is the call pre okay, though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
Hand 3: ... That is an entirely different mess and you should avoid doing that till your experienced will live play.

Hand 4: Toss-up. I prefer a 3 bet rather then a shove because the shove is going to fold some hands that you want to call. However, your probably losing your stack here either way. You need to 3 bet to $10-$12 against a manaic who will probably see the flop with nearly ATC, and you will have to c-bet the rest unless flop is ugly.
I agree with hand 3. Probably 3betting small looks stronger as well, but pretty painful to have to shove blank flops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Hand 1: A little bit here depends on stack sizes, but you would normally keep firing here OOP but IP OTB you can check it through for pot control as long as you intend on calling most River bets. Your hand really cant improve here so a little caution would not be held against you since your very well could be in b/f mode here and be forced out of the hand by a raise from a naked Queen.
Incidentally, the river was another spade (so board is now paired with a backdoor flush) and it went check-check. Villain has QJ for the turned full house. [ ] villain gets value .

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Hand 3: Just tough luck here ... gotta go with your read plus you dont need to show your cards!!
Oh, I didn't. Lied and said I had a J when I had K-high. Definitely FPS - lets not talk about it any more .

Hand 4: Nothing wrong with flipping for less than 30 bb ... especially when it looks tilty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Tough to play tight short handed, even in 1-1, not sure how long your session was either. But generally short handed the more aggressive player wins the pots and all you need to do is hit the Flop. Donk betting is gernerally more necessary as well. For these hands to all show up was a pretty hot deck ... unless it was over 4 hours of play or something like that. Sounds like you have a handle on the game ... just lay low until you get your feet wet, probably less raising and just wait for the deck to hit you a bit but these hands generally look fine. GL
Played for about 3 hours. I flopped straights 3 times in about half an hour. One is the ATdd hand above. One I got paid off on three streets. The third I flopped a wheel and everyone folded on the flop. Aside from that, lots of boring hands!

Thanks for all the advice. I will definitely play more straight-forward next time and not try anything too marginal!
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote
06-27-2013 , 03:19 PM
Hand 1. Worst turn card. I like a bet/fold to a raise. Or even a check fold. That turn card fills up too much of your opponents flop range.
Hand 2. I'm not too crazy about the shove. Maniacs will call off with bottom pair, and I don't like the semi bluff with no folding equity. Our value from maniacs comes from making hands, not bluffing.
Hand 3. Same principle as above. Except, if you think he's FOS, raise the flop and bluff big on the turn to really put him to the test. Or fold the flop. Floating maniacs never turns out well with king high, when he can have bottom pair.
Hand 4. Just a cooler. I'm never not shoving AK against a maniac when short stacked.
1-1 - First live cash session - some hands Quote

      
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