I feel like I never really knew the 'standard' line in certain value spots. I kind of have just always counted their stack and proceeded to bet amounts that would be reasonable to call and would also invite a shove from draws. Just trying to get as much as possible in on each street, and setup for a shove that would be reasonable to call with lesser made hands, given the pot odds. I'm fairly sure my play in these spots is good, I'm just curious as to whether or not its considered 'standard'. Recent example:

$3/5 NL live at local casino. Hero is young-looking 26yr old asian kid with hoodie and glasses etc, sitting on ~$1400. Villain has just sat down and iscompletely unknown, but has been described as 'solid' and possibly TAG by a friendly regular. He just bought in for $800 and change, coming from a broken $2/3 NL table.

Hero is SB and has KK.
Villain is BTN and raises to $20 with about $700ish behind.
Hero raises to $50.
Folds to Villain who calls.

Flop T22
Hero bets $65.
Villain raises to $165. He has maybe $575 remaining.
Hero raises to $375. If called, is planning to shove the turn.


Against a complete unknown, how are you playing this and why? Are you a live or online player?

Youre philosophy of bet sizing seems pretty standard, but in your given example, instead of 3betting i would just get it all in on that board facing aggression

I would also raise a bit more pre

In my mind I'm just looking to reel him in as much as possible to the hand and invite him to feel like he can't fold, sorta eventually baiting out a big mistake for all his chips. I am thinking that worst case scenario is that he folds something like 77-TT or two face cards preflop, or that he gets away from JT or AT or whatever on the flop.

What are the flaws to this 'milking' logic? I guess he would be more willing to call with A2 pre for only $50 rather than $60-70, but I'm ok with the trade-off of having him possibly stack off with his flopped TPGK with holdings he would otherwise fold facing a bigger preflop raise. Thoughts anyone?

raise more pre something like $65-$75 and just get it in on the flop

I like raising to $80 here preflop. It is a bit over sized, but it I don't want to play KK vs a total unknown OOP and it is enough villain can't set mine against us. This situation is particularly bad because most villains ranges from the button are wide and there is no telling what he has, making flop play even harder.

As played, I would use a mix of flat and reraise all in on flop. When I flat the $165, I'm betting all turns, bet/fold if the turn is a diamond and looking to get it in otherwise. If I had word that villain was decent and reasonably tight, I would be shoving more then calling because the A high flush draw is the hand that worries me.

Meh, pf isn't terribad, if he's got A2 then he's made a mistake pf and we will stack him later.

I like a bigger raise pre. Eff stacks are approaching 300 bbs so we want his preflop mistakes to be bigger mistakes.

I prefer flatting here on flop. This allows him to bet again on turn with second best hand. Since he is unknown I think we just fold out worse more often than not when we raise here and lose value from JJ QQ etc.

Get it in with a chubby

I think you have to raise more pre for both value and to narrow his range down somewhat.

On the flop I think I'd just move in. bet/stuff. If he has a hand like AdQd he's always getting it in on the flop but he might somehow fold a blank turn and hold onto his last $200(I know this would be somewhat rare) He might also toss QQ away if an A or K comes off thinking he no longer beats much of anything.

On the other side of the coin, if a diamond hits the turn, you still have to shove but you certainly don't like it near as much. Or an Ace for that matter since NFD's make up a big part of his range here. Even a T would make me feel less than stellar.

I understand what your trying to do, killing him softly, and gradually getting all the money in. However here I think your best served to get the $ in as quickly as possible. He's calling w/ most of his value range that your ahead of (FD's, JJ, QQ) He probably 4 bets AA,KK pre a good amount of the time so really were only behind TT and A2s, K2s. Don't let an ugly turn make this harder than need be.