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are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle?

07-14-2013 , 10:46 PM
Call. I'd put him on 2 pr. My guess is that he had you on AA or AK.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-14-2013 , 11:22 PM
If you know he wouldn't do this with a draw that is almost MORE of a reason to call. Even the worst nits can't wait for set over set. And if they can, agro them out of every other pot until you get your money back.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces...suited
If you know he wouldn't do this with a draw that is almost MORE of a reason to call. Even the worst nits can't wait for set over set. And if they can, agro them out of every other pot until you get your money back.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 11:18 AM
Is this one of those spots where its close enough not to matter much in the long run?

I just don't like calling big bets without substantive reads in marginal spots. Based on what we have we know villain doesn't raise a lot but do we have a read that he is the sort of passive calling station that looks to bingo 2 pair and then stick it in? If so we call always.

Is our image such that villain is influenced by our play?

Is this a spot that we can fold a nearly neutral EV spot and reduce variance?
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
Because in a rec-fish's mind, being monster is not synonymous with the nuts and they will overvalue all types of hands that bottom set is ahead of.
i 100% agree with this. the fact that you haven't seen this guy raise in three hours is precisely the reason he might very well overplay K8, AA, and yes, even AK here. he's sat there and sat there waiting for a hand. now money's going into the pot and he has a very strong hand. is he folding? absolutely not. is he just calling? not with that diamond draw out there! so he's raising. how much? may as well shove!

plus, while limping AA is epidemic with these players, limping KK is not nearly as common. it's just too painful for them to see an ace-high flop. so that definitely diminishes the number of times he'll have KK here.

yeah, he had it, but ranged out properly, you definitely made the right call -- not because you hit the hand you wanted so you have to go with it, but because you're ahead of the range, plain and simple.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
The question here isn't whether or not Old Man Nitty McNitty can have 88 which is the only real set he can have in his range here. I've never met a nitty McNitty that limps KK in the CO after 3 limpers.

The question should be is V bad enough to overshove K8s, AK, or KQ here because he is pathologically afraid of the draw???

I see these types of terribad nits all the time. Yes, they are nitty, but they are ALSO terribad in that they will treat TPGK or two pair like the stone cold nuts on wet boards like this because they are AFRAID of the draw and they will overshove....

Granted, usually they wait until the turn, even with bottom set they usually want to peel one non-suit card on turn and then ship it.

Regardless, I'm just not folding bottom set here without some SERIOUS hand history from villain that shows he is NOT overly aggressive with TPGK or 2p hands. I do know of several nits that I WOULD fold bottom set here to because I do have the hand history with them and I 100% know that they are only doing this shove with a set. But those nits I could count on one hand after years of playing in my area... So for all other nits at this level, I just make a sigh-shrug-call for 100bb.

Now, this would be an interesting spot if we were 200bb+ deep. but for 100bb deep, it has to be a sigh-shrug-call.
+1 dgi has explained it superbly. I would call unless I have a very good read (very very rare for me) that V has a better set - KK is remote possibility with so many limpers so I am only worried about 88. But given the other hands in his range (AA, Kx, FD) I am calling all day long.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb coolman
If he's drinking coffee and wearing any sort of Veteran's cap, it's a fold. Otherwise, call.
Pretty much this.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesstGump
1-2 no limit 12pm Saturday

Hero-most aggressive at the table by far. 27 and handsome.


Villian- late 60's and collecting dust. He is a nut peddler.

Hand- hero limps utg with 2c2s, 3 others limp including Villian in cutoff, sb and bb complete.

Flop- Kd8d2h. sb leads for 12. Folds to hero who makes it 35. Folds to Villian who goes all in for 220. Folds to hero who just threw up a little bit and has the Villian covered....?
If I'm playing for a set in a pot where the effective stack is 150BB or less the money is going in on the flop 100% of the time is the OR wants to play for it.

Old guys protect with dry K's on boards like this because they want to push out the FD. He's going to have AK and KQ here a lot imo.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote
07-15-2013 , 02:36 PM
This isn't a stats fold, it's a read fold. You had the read right so I'd say trust it.
are you ever good when old dude puts all his chips into the middle? Quote

      
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