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are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table?

11-23-2013 , 07:47 PM
Live $2/$5, full table. All around the table is quite loose and aggressive, although no one particular opponent I would consider highly skilled postflop. People seem to be aimlessly creating big pots regardless of position. Straddling is common. Seemed like great table conditions. But I was really card dead.

I saw an occasionally flop here and there, Btn with 99, MP with A9, pretty standard spots I picked (usually called another's raise) but missed the flops a lot. So, just waiting patiently for a hand.

There were a few situations where my standard approach (solid TAG) seemed unprofitable, although perhaps bad timing. I'll let you be the judge:
1) V1 (hyper LAG, likes to gamble, but super short stacked this hand) straddles from HJ. I raise to $30 from CO with KQ. Everyone around the table folds, including V1, who only had $25 remaining behind him. He spends a full minute chastising my play, saying if I just called preflop, then there would have been more action.
2) ~60 minutes later, several seat switches have occurred. V1 raises UTG+1 to $15. Three calls ahead (one opp fit or fold, the other two pretty loose). I raise to $75 with AQ. Whole table folds again. A different LAG V says "if you always reraise to $75, everyone will fold and you won't make any money". That was the first time that session that I had raised to $75, lol.
3) the very next hand, V1 raises UTG to $15 again. One caller ahead (loose). I reraise again to $75 with QQ. All fold except V1 who calls. Effective stacks $800 (I cover V).
Flop: Q 5 9
V1 checks. I bet $50 (wanted to try and induce action because his calling range is super wide). He calls.
Turn: A
V1 checks. I PSB. He folds. Two other opponents at the table guess that I have a set of queens as I am mucking cards down.

The reason for my post is this - a loose and active table all around, and I'm card dead. Yet when I pick up profitable hands, my image hurts me and I get less action. Are you guys adjusting your image, even given that this table calls down very light? Or are you sitting snug waiting for standard spots, and not concerned with your image at this kind of table?
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 08:08 PM
Widen your range for sure but don't give into playing hands you shouldn't. Look at how the hands you mentioned went. You 3 bet qq flopped a set and he still called your 3 bet.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 08:18 PM
I think your hands worked out pretty well. Just keep doing it. Then, when you have a hidden monster, you will get paid. I play in a game like this. It's $5 otb, two players almost always straddle to $15, and it can often be $45 to see any flop. Most players are nuts, with a few nits I stay away from. I usually take it down when I raise/c-bet, which is fine with me. Then, when I hit a hidden monster with a limp or raising w/ small suited connectors, etc., they pay me off. I still play TAG but mix it up a little. Works beautifully.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 08:53 PM
Definitely don't need to try and do a ton different imo. Unless you get to show down most players won't even remember what you did last hand let alone last orbit...Most people just don't like folding and get irritated when they can't try to hit their bingo...

This happened to me last night...I didn't play a hand for a full 2 hours. I raised in 3 hands of an orbit and got called by at least 4 players. Moral of the story people don't want to fold. They just have to see the flop!

Waiting for good spots and taking advantage of value bets is the key imo.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 09:17 PM
Don't start bluffing a ton or forcing the action. It's very likely they didn't have much to call with and they'll likely pay you off when they hit top pair.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 09:20 PM
Hand 1: standard. Limping is bad here. With the straddle and the shortie I might even raise to $35 or $40 to isolate with KQ.
Hand 2: standard 3bet and sizing pre. AQ plays a lot better heads up and is usually a mandatory 3bet against a loose open and a few callers. If people aren't calling with dominated holdings to 3bets though I'd flat AQ pre there. It's just likely they didn't have much
Hand 3: standard mandatory 3bet here. I'd prefer a small 3bet here. You have a big PP and your hand is strong enough to play against two players that I'd 3bet to $50 expecting both to call so you can extract more value post flop. Also $50 should be enough to push out other players
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 09:22 PM
Hand 3: you got a bit greedy and bet way too much on turn IMO. Obviously we're targeting Ax and two pairs+ when we bet turn but I think a pot sized bet may scare away a lot of Ax. Something like 2/3 pot is good
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 09:44 PM
if in general no one at the table is folding then there isn't much value in bluffing. The reason people are complaining is because your taking their money w/o letting them see flops. That's good keep it up.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-23-2013 , 09:47 PM
you 3bet twice in your session so far. imo that´s a much higher % than a common live player anyway...
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-24-2013 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
Hand 3: standard mandatory 3bet here. I'd prefer a small 3bet here. You have a big PP and your hand is strong enough to play against two players that I'd 3bet to $50 expecting both to call so you can extract more value post flop. Also $50 should be enough to push out other players
There are two reasons I can think of as to why I 3! to $75 instead of $50:
1) 3!'s to $50 got action (at times) from > 2 players. And I'd rather not play QQ multiway. Admittedly, I wasn't thinking this way at the time of the hand. Also of note, I think V1's 3!'s to $50 for way more action (hence my OP and considerations for adjusting image, V1 was getting the kind of action I wanted).
2) just the previous hand was when V2 criticized my $75 3! (in which everyone folded) and I commented this hand "let's see what happens this time!" hence the $75 3! again. A sort of metagame for the critical opponents who hopefully would loosen up.

Another consideration for my image (I'm curious what y'all think).....I'm horrible with my discipline in taking breaks in my sessions. I just can't get myself to get up until I believe my session is over for that day (on average, anywhere from 4-6 hours, by 4 hours I'm pretty antsy and focus drops). Perhaps if I could do better at taking breaks, then coming back with the "image" of being ready to gamble again, then perhaps that would encourage action. It's possible I'm overthinking here too. I am curious how others of you handle in-session breaks vs no breaks and how, if at all, that could be used to alter your image. Remember, I'm not talking about winning images (those handle themselves). I'm talking losing or break-even sessions, card dead sessions etc.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-24-2013 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filimaica

Perhaps if I could do better at taking breaks, then coming back with the "image" of being ready to gamble again, then perhaps that would encourage action.
This does nothing for your image. The nittiest Rocks are the most frequent walkers.

Just set a goal of getting up every 2hrs./or every 4th dealer or something if you need a solid break schedule.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-24-2013 , 05:10 PM
It's just a matter of discipline. There's no such thing as missing pocket aces because you got up. It's one long session. If it helps think of it in terms of $$. Not getting up costs you money. Your win rate will be higher if you take breaks.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-24-2013 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
Your win rate will be higher if you take breaks.
Agreed.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-24-2013 , 10:24 PM
i think you played hand 3 really badly

betting cheap to induce a light call and then bombing a scare card on a turn ensures you win the minimum.

image is overrated most of the time, nits still get rewarded assuming they dont butcher their hands postflop
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-25-2013 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkupossu
i think you played hand 3 really badly

betting cheap to induce a light call and then bombing a scare card on a turn ensures you win the minimum.
Pikkupossu - although I agree with your point. With that being said, from my POV, criticizing another's line in this way without also providing an alternate way of thinking is meaningless to me. What is your plan here against this LAG? Are you betting an ABC line and not deviating from the obvious bet sizing? This opponent is wild, except my image in that moment was nittier than usual for me, therefore, "typical" sizing is probably not getting paid off. If you are capable of providing something more constructive (I know you are), then I welcome additional feedback.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-25-2013 , 09:10 AM
Check the turn in hand 3. When you bomb the overcard, you turn your hand face up. What is his range after the flop call?
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-25-2013 , 09:20 AM
Quick side note:
By the looks of it, you picked up ~$200 at the table in about 3-4 hours of play. $50-$66/ hour. I think your plan is doing just fine.

At a laggier table you want to stay tighter. You know that people will be putting in lots of money with weak hands, to keep putting in money with the strongest of your hands and you will make a very nice profit.

Another thing to keep in mind though is what you are trying to accomplish with your bets. You want to size your bets to get an intended goal. If you are indeed at a table where all of your opens are being folded to, then repeatedly drop the size by $2-3 until you get one caller. Then keep it there. Same thing with your 3bets. If you get no callers, then drop it by $5 each time until you get 1 caller. We want to be heads up in just about all situations as that's where so much of our money comes from. And if they think that you are really tight, and just fold to your cBet after calling your opening raise, or your 3bet that's even better and our win rate goes up even more.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-25-2013 , 09:48 AM
Your image seems fine at this table. And the fact that you have picked up a couple hundred bucks without a showdown is invaluable. These LAGtards just think you're a huge nit because you haven't played every pot they have, but they are just guessing. I don't think you should flip the maniac switch, but your image would allow you to bluff some boards that really connect with your perceived range. And you can occasionally 3bet on the light side in position since none of them like calling your 3bets very much.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote
11-25-2013 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filimaica
3) the very next hand, V1 raises UTG to $15 again. One caller ahead (loose). I reraise again to $75 with QQ. All fold except V1 who calls. Effective stacks $800 (I cover V).
Flop: Q 5 9
V1 checks. I bet $50 (wanted to try and induce action because his calling range is super wide). He calls.
Turn: A
V1 checks. I PSB. He folds. Two other opponents at the table guess that I have a set of queens as I am mucking cards down.
You have his range obliterated. With your image there seems no good reason for such a large bet ott. Stack sizes? Against some villains I might even consider checking the turn here ... or betting half pot at least.

Good advice itt. I have played in a game of regulars like this. The ribbing and teasing about being tight is part of the deal. Profit is what you are after.
are you adjusting your image against a fully LAG table? Quote

      
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