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Would you take this virtual flip? Would you take this virtual flip?

11-02-2016 , 05:58 PM
It's fairly obvious he's setting up a toy game scenario and only asking about post flop, knowing Vs hand. Fold pre isn't important here.
Would you take this virtual flip? Quote
11-02-2016 , 05:59 PM
It's also fairly obvious that OP doesn't know what EV means.
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11-02-2016 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
I will definitely read Garick's link, but I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. It's not really dead money because V will be fighting for the pot (if he has an overpair...ok, let's assume that he does and he's definitely not folding either) and we still just have 49% EV. Maybe I'm not asking the right question...of course I'd gii if presented w/ this flop, regardless of what V does. However, I just hate getting into these types of situations where I'm 'forced' to gii given the 'great' EV (well, not really since it's only 49) and it's an automatic shove ap otf. Flipping for stacks is not really an ideal situation, that's my pt.

If I spin a roulette wheel with 100 numbers on it and offer you numbers 1-49 (49%) would you bet $1 if I offered you $20 if you win?

How about $10?

How about $1.25?
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11-02-2016 , 07:18 PM
OP, you are confusing the concepts of equity (what percentage of this pot is "my fair share") with expected value (if I do X, what is my average win/loss?).

Also, if you are this concerned about taking positive EV spots that might cost you your stack, you are significantly under-rolled, either in terms of money, psychologically, or both.
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11-02-2016 , 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
Thanks, I'll read that. The thing is, it's not a +EV, it's 49% here if my read of overpair is correct, so I'm kinda flipping for stacks.
Your chance of winning is irrelevant, the EV of the decision is what's important.

Say you're on the BB, everyone ahead shoves, you have AA. Do you fold? Your chance of winning is sub-50%.
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11-02-2016 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Say you're on the BB, everyone ahead shoves, you have AA. Do you fold? Your chance of winning is sub-50%.
To expound on this, OP, let's say everyone has $200 stacks. If you fold, you keep $198 since you have a blind in. AA has approx 30.64% equity against 9 random hands.

Which would you rather have, 100% of $198 (you fold) or 30.64% of $2,000?

Spoiler:
Obviously, if you call, you'll either lose $198, or win $1,802. 69.46% of the time, you'll lose your whole stack, but the 30.64% of the time you win it all means that the average (Expected Value) winnings are +$475.27. Therefore, even though your equity sucks, your EV is YUUUGE.
Would you take this virtual flip? Quote
11-03-2016 , 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohn
You're conflating 2 different questions.

The question on the flop is - do we want to shove $325 with a 49% chance of winning $700. The answer to that is yes.

The other question you seem to be asking is - do we want to call As9s vs QsQx pre flop knowing that the flop will be 9x7s3s. The answer to that is no. That is if we know before we or anyone else puts any money in the middle that we'll have 49% equity we don't want to put money into a heads up pot.

The trick is that you don't "know" that you're against QsQx until after the pre-flop decision is made. In fact we can argue whether the pre-flop play in your example is good or bad. But clearly once we've arrived at this flop it's +EV to get the rest of our money in.
Yes, thanks, that's what I'm getting at, especially your 2nd paragraph.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
Your chance of winning is irrelevant, the EV of the decision is what's important.

Say you're on the BB, everyone ahead shoves, you have AA. Do you fold? Your chance of winning is sub-50%.
Is my situation the same as this AA one though? To answer, of course I'll shove as I'm ahead w/ my rockets. I'd shove also in my OP example, just that I didn't like the spot I got myself in lol.
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11-03-2016 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowSociety
If you flip a coin and get $1.01 on heads and lose $1 on tails, this is not "50% EV" or EV neutral as you're probably meaning. DUCY?

The dead money in the pot makes 49% to win +EV because you will win more the 49 times you win than you will lose the 51 times you lose. Make sense?
You're right, I always get terms mixed up. So as long as EV>0 it's good to call?
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11-03-2016 , 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
So as long as EV>0 it's good to call?
As long as you're rolled for the variance, yes.
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11-03-2016 , 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
Is my situation the same as this AA one though?
It's an extreme example to show you where you are going wrong in your thinking.
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11-04-2016 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
It's an extreme example to show you where you are going wrong in your thinking.
Wrong is pretty strong. Like that other guy said, did I want to gii knowing V has an overpr and we only hv 49pc equity otf to risk most of our stack? No, not good, but of course ap gotta gii.

AA pfai is a no brainer.

I agree gotta gii, just hate the spot.
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11-04-2016 , 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
Wrong is pretty strong.
If you don't like how the truth is presented to you, poker may not be the game for you.
Would you take this virtual flip? Quote
11-04-2016 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
If you don't like how the truth is presented to you, poker may not be the game for you.
Well, those 2 scenarios are not exactly the same. AA gii all the time pf (save for certain situations). Axs leading to 49% otf, not so much (the route, not ap otf which of course is gii).
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11-04-2016 , 09:15 PM
Of course they are not exactly the same, if an example was the same as the original problem, then it's not an example now is it?
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11-05-2016 , 01:10 PM
Poker ain't dead boys
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11-06-2016 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
Of course they are not exactly the same, if an example was the same as the original problem, then it's not an example now is it?
Yes of course. Still, AA is really no brainer.
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