I feel like there's a lot of disagreement on whether limping is appropriate in LLSNL games; some people say you should never limp, some people think overlimping is okay in certain spots, other people limp MP or earlier if it's constantly getting to a flop without a raise. Just as a purely theoretical question to anchor how I should feel about limping, would it be appropriate to limp UTG if you knew it would get to the flop? Of course, being OOP on the flop and having more difficult decisions as a result of flopping middling value increases the risk of making a bad/spewy play. But is it +EV *at the moment the chips are collected and the flop comes out* to have limped UTG, assuming relatively competent play from the flop forwards?

Obviously limping UTG is a bad play, significantly-in-part because you almost never get to the flop and hoping that you will is dumb. I'm just wondering about the pure value proposition of actually getting there without being raised after your **** limp.

I'm assuming we'd only be limping hands we considered playable (and not ATC).

Pretty field dependent, imo. If most everyone at the table is a moran and we were guaranteed to see a multiway limped pot, count me in. This was actually a huge part of my strategy at one time (i.e. see a flop for cheap with a bunch of morans). Nowadays the edge I have over my general field of opponents (plus in a higher raked game) is much thinner and gets even thinner if I'm OOP, so I wouldn't be as gung ho about it.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I would limp UTG sometimes if the table rules precluded raising an UTG limp. The range would depend on table conditions, mostly on how bad villains and how deep villains are. Pocket pairs and suited connectors but not all of them, with a few good suited one gappers.

If this was actually a rule I would drop the low pocket pairs. The RIO would become high because LP would be limping any pair. The same for low suited connectors, MP and LP would limp middle/high suited connectors and LP limping A-rag suited would make these unprofitable.

You can limp certain hands UTG profitably in most games whether people are allowed to raise or not.

The percentage of times you can expect a raise and the likelihood of there being multiple callers dictates which type hands you can limp profitably.

I will if it's a limp heavy game, I'd probably limp as weak as unsuited one gappers down to 75 depending on how loosey goosey I feel haha.

I mostly play in a deep 10 handed game with stacks often between 200-500bb. The combination of having 9 others act behind you and being able to call even big raises for a relatively small % of your stack makes limping UTG actually a pretty viable strategy. I've seen some good players basically limp their entire range from this position and continue with a mixed strategy of calling or 3betting.

However, in a more standard 7-9handed setting with ~100bb stacks, you would need to get to a flop a very high % of the time to make it a profitable play with all but the top of your range imo.

This is an unanswerable question. Not only is it an odd given, but it depends on a zillion factors. Thus it is likely to descend into a weird back and forth that goes nowhere, so I'm going to lock it up.