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Wizard? or Station? Wizard? or Station?

12-22-2015 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
it's a term that we used in poker rooms around the midwest 6 or 7 years ago that means LAG escalating their aggression level by overbetting the value of the situation on each successive street.

For example.... LAG raises in late position to 25 and OMC calls in the BB with TT to trap.

flop comes K 2 2 rainbow. OMC checks, and LAG bets 55 into a pot of 50 on the flop. Now what value is there in overbetting that flop? Neither player should have a 2, and the only reasonable value hands are AA, AK, and maybe KQ. Throw KK out because it is so hard for one of the players to have the only remaining K in the deck in a head up pot. So OMC should only be calling if he has a strong K. So a normal value bet would be like 35 or 40, but 55 is already escalating the aggression, usually a sign of a bluff.

But, OMC knows that the LAG is going Cbet, so he calls. LAG knows that OMC has something, but he also knows that OMC is most likely calling him light. So when the turn comes a 6, the LAG knows that OMC is prepared to call him again, so now the LAG must escalate again to get OMC to fold, so he bets 200.

And as each street progesses, the LAG continues overbetting the amount of what should be the correct value amount. So in effect, he is 'climbing the ladder' of aggression.
Wow PFunk, thanks for taking the time. I like it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using 2+2 Forums
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-22-2015 , 11:23 PM
He is not a wizard (how many of them play 1/2) but is definitely not a station either based on the description. That betsizing looks really suspicious coming from such a reckless villain. He must have figured V1 missed the flop, and didn't hit a king when he bet $120 into $140 and then overbet the river.

I'd hate to make those calls with 33 though. At least if you have AQ you have some equity in case you're behind a pair. With 33 you're drawing almost dead more often.
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-23-2015 , 12:54 AM
The bet sizes didn't make any sense. It also sounds like the player was just betting and betting regardless of what came, and sometimes its a huge giveaway that they are bluffing. That board is super dry too.

V2 trusted his read. Good for him. Its a great call. Not a wizard, just a really good player paying attention, being hyper-aware of whats going on, and noticing V1's illogical behaviour in the hand.
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-23-2015 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
If you want to get this guys stack, you either wait for a premium pair, flop a set with a pocket pair, or you make top pair top kicker. Anything else is just "gambling".
Wow.
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-23-2015 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidbanana
1/2 LLSNL


OTTH:

V1 opens UTG for 20$ (large for the table) and V2 is the only caller
Raised big UTG, anything from AA down to crazy suited connectors

Quote:
Flop (40): 9 6 2 r

V1 bets 50, V2 calls.
This the over bet starts forming his range here.
Likely holdings of
-Over pairs TT+
-Bluffs overcards/gutshots/open enders/total air
-sets

I think he probably bets his 9x or 77/88 more reasonably here. probably his sets too but who knows

Quote:
Turn (140): 9 6 2 K r

V1 bets 120, V2 calls.
Big bet on a big card.
His likely holdings are
-Big pairs AA, Kx and we cut out TT-QQ
(I think TT-QQ still bets just not as big)
-Bluffs overcards/gutshots/open enders/total air
-Sets

Quote:
River (380): 9 6 2 K 6 (two spades)

V1 goes all in for 460, V2 calls.
Now the board pairs and V1 shoves.

V2 likely doesn't have a monster hand but could have a 6x

-Sure all V1 boats got there, but what could call a shove here? Still makes sense, he could think "I have a boat ill shove and hope to get called"

-AA and Kx are likely kind of scared of the 6x and what could call them if they bet so big. AA/Kx likely bets much smaller hoping to get a 9x to call.

-Bluffs have made it this far, and have no showdown equity, have to make opponent fold


By betting so big on the river he becomes SUPER polarized. He either has a boat or a bluff. And there are WAAAAAY hands in his range that have to bluff than are there sets that filled up.

Would have been super sick if V1 turned his 44s into a bluff and won the pot!
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-23-2015 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage
...
All of this analysis is correct, but defending with 33 is still ill-advised. Hands don't end on the flop. J8o has 30% equity against 33, and a range of 6x- is comfortably ahead (much less 88-).

Of course, there's the possibility that villain's sizing will become more reasonable (or he'll stop betting altogether) if he hits his Jack, so he can exploit based on sizing and action on future streets enough that he can still own him with a pair of 3s. But 1) everything to this point of the post is assuming that he's right 100% of the time that this is a total bluff, and 2) snapping him off here with a totally garbage hand just to show villain how big his balls are isn't a good longterm thing to do, even if it's marginally +EV. He's now taught villain a lesson ... which is exactly not what he wants to do.

Seeing as how basically any hand KT or better is a better hand to do this with (as in K-high on the flop, as in AQ is much better to do this with, as in we would split our ranges into various segments past the flop based on what the turn card is, etc), he might as well make plays with better EV margins and then tank/call his A-high hands on the river and make it seemed like he chased overcards the first few streets, only to catch a tell on villain on the final bet, so that villain has no idea what part of his game to readjust.
Wizard? or Station? Quote
12-24-2015 , 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidbanana
not 24 hours yet but whatever.

V2 calls down and shows 33. scoops.
Oh, so that's where Dwan got that!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkPXztxVOEA

durrrr would have played better except Hellmuth was constantly yapping "I'm so good, I remember every hand, I play every hand perfectly, etc."
Wizard? or Station? Quote

      
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