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Will You Show Me If I Fold Will You Show Me If I Fold

08-26-2013 , 04:36 PM
I've heard this question asked several times recently in 2-5 NL games. Typically it's at the river and asked by one player after a long deliberation. It got me to thinking:

1. How should Hero answer when he wants a call?
2. How should Hero answer when he wants a fold?
3. Or, should Hero not answer?
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 04:45 PM
My general answer to this question is usually something that will tilt villain.
If you want a call when he asks this question assuming he's been deliberating for a bit instantly call the clock on villain making sure the attitude you exude when doin this is annoyance as if you know he's goin to fold and you just want him to stop bsing.

If you want him to fold calmly and confidently say "whatever you want me to do" and after he folds muck your hand and don't show. That will tilt him way more than showing a bluff.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 04:47 PM
I feel like answering yes and no both get folds the majority of the time. If you say no, villain assumes you want a call and folds. If you say yes, villain assumes you're comfortable enough to answer the question and folds and expects to get to see Heros cards.

If you want a call, don't answer.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 04:51 PM
I usually just ignore everything anyone says to me while I'm playing a sizable pot. The reason I ignore questions like this is its hard to know how people are going to react to any particular answer. I have heard a lot of people say "If he says he will show he is weak because he wants you to fold." I have also heard people say "If he says he will show he is strong because he doesn't mind showing." So for me I'd rather not just introduce another random element into his decisionmaking process that could cause him to make the correct decision.

The only time I stray from this is for big fish. They are in the game to have fun and I am in the game to provide it for them. So if they want to be talkative during the hand, I will engage them, because they are much more likely to play big pots with me if playing big pots with me is fun. The biggest fish I've ever played with lost about 250k (no exaggeration) in a 3 month period at 2/5. That money went 75% to about 5-6 players. Now, some of that was because those were some of the better players in the room. Some was variance. But a big reason for that is this guy would play big pots with those players because they made it fun (both by giving action and engaging in his antics). The nits with the headphones and sunglasses didn't understand this concept.

I guess that's a little offtopic. But I think not too far because the guys that ask questions like that tend to be the fish you want to give you action. So I generally answer with some playful answer that keeps the game fun.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 04:59 PM
I usually just ignore this question and keep staring straight ahead. I think that, at least for me, avoiding giving off tells is better than trying to give off reverse tells.

The less I give villain to POSSIBLY pick up on the better.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 05:14 PM
There is definitely a leveling aspect to answering this question, and like everything in poker it depends on the specific situation. But, I was wondering if there any generalities here. When a V asks this question he/she, is typically on the fence about a decision so why not push him in the direction you want.

When Hero wants a call, it seems like 'NO' might be the best answer absent other factors since it could pique V's curiosity? Curious V's tend to call more.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-26-2013 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack492505
The reason I ignore questions like this is its hard to know how people are going to react to any particular answer. ... So for me I'd rather not just introduce another random element into his decisionmaking process that could cause him to make the correct decision.
That's odd, I have exactly the opposite take on this. For a decent opponent, introducing a random element into the decision should, if anything, increase their probability of making a mistake. I have a few canned lines/speeches for this situation which are completely unrelated to my hand, and I give them with the hope that the opponent misinterprets the noise as actual information. Though, I would agree that if a player is not comfortable doing stuff like this, saying nothing is the best approach.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 01:48 AM
Just return the information probe back by asking: If I would show, would you fold?

To peak his curiosity.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 01:52 AM
Think its generally perceived as if you say 'yes ill show' theyll be more apt to fold cause at least they get to see if they made the right fold.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 02:12 AM
Don't say anything. I've never said anything in those spots in my life. About 3 weeks ago, the one time I started to talk (because I wanted a fold from V otr and I thought the bettor will only talk if he's comfortable, right?), V calls and said that if I didn't say anything he would have folded, me talking made him call. I don't know if that was true or he was just trying to tilt me, but I'm pretty good at getting folds when I need/want them and never said anything in the past 10 years, don't really know why I did this time.
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08-27-2013 , 10:42 AM
I generally just say something stupid lie "I'll show if you call" or some other bs that will tilt villain. I generally don't want to answer in a way that makes the villain overthink and make a decision I do not want
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 05:07 PM
i usually just watch tv and ignore them. minimals response intrigues me, but i personally wouldn't do that.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 08:11 PM
Sometimes when someone is tanking and I want a call I'll just blurt out "I'll show you if you fold". I can never be certain but I know it's worked sometimes.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-27-2013 , 08:19 PM
if we ignore him and dont say anything, we look weak. If we agree to show, we look even weaker.

I just tell him "if you wana see it get your money in there you know how it works"
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08-27-2013 , 08:21 PM
If its an attractive female villain I say "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." And give her a wink.

Otherwise I don't respond.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-28-2013 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimals
My general answer to this question is usually something that will tilt villain.
If you want a call when he asks this question assuming he's been deliberating for a bit instantly call the clock on villain making sure the attitude you exude when doin this is annoyance as if you know he's goin to fold and you just want him to stop bsing.

If you want him to fold calmly and confidently say "whatever you want me to do" and after he folds muck your hand and don't show. That will tilt him way more than showing a bluff.
This is what I would do, although this is basically just turning you into the biggest ******* at the table as these are huge d-bag moves.

In my own experience anytime a villan does this they are usually about to level themselves into a call anyway so I don't think it makes much of a difference what you do.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-28-2013 , 05:07 AM
I never respond but I use the tactic to my advantage a lot. I asked to see one card when deciding to call a river bet from a gentleman and he said "I will show you both." He turned over pocket aces for aces up. I had trip 7's so it made the call much easier. I have picked up a bunch of info on people that respond, so don't.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-28-2013 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimals
My general answer to this question is usually something that will tilt villain.
If you want a call when he asks this question assuming he's been deliberating for a bit instantly call the clock on villain making sure the attitude you exude when doin this is annoyance as if you know he's goin to fold and you just want him to stop bsing.

If you want him to fold calmly and confidently say "whatever you want me to do" and after he folds muck your hand and don't show. That will tilt him way more than showing a bluff.
I like this style but as far as pissing players off I really don't like to do it mentally I just flat out beat them with the cards and tilt them ( the old fashion way)
Note: I think either strategy is good on the felt. Nice post.
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-28-2013 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paratrooper99
I never respond but I use the tactic to my advantage a lot. I asked to see one card when deciding to call a river bet from a gentleman and he said "I will show you both." He turned over pocket aces for aces up. I had trip 7's so it made the call much easier. I have picked up a bunch of info on people that respond, so don't.
wait what?
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08-28-2013 , 08:27 PM
I say "I might not even show if you call..."
Will You Show Me If I Fold Quote
08-28-2013 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
I never respond but I use the tactic to my advantage a lot. I asked to see one card when deciding to call a river bet from a gentleman and he said "I will show you both." He turned over pocket aces for aces up. I had trip 7's so it made the call much easier. I have picked up a bunch of info on people that respond, so don't.
So, you talked an opponent into showing his cards BEFORE you acted? I've been taking the wrong approach to poker all these years. Starting hypnosis lessons asap.
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