Background: Started a cash game at a local card club during the day 4 handed (Field of Dreams philosophy, If you build it they will come). Down about $700, after losing a big hand with Middle pair and open ended straight draw vs what I thought was an over pair but was actually a straight and then having a Flopped 2 pair counterfeited twice. After all of this, the two wildest, craziest players in the club somehow join our game, (one of the players played a daytime tournament at the club and bought in 8 times...). The 2 super wild players were driving action and the average open was usually $25

The Hand (straddle on)
Hero UTG ($850): 85 limps for $4
Wild Crazy #1 (450): makes it $25
Very Good Pro (Button - $1,500): Calls
SB, BB Fold
Wild Crazy #2 ($950, in game for $2500 at this point): Calls $25
Hero: Calls $25

Flop ($103): J85
WC#2: Checks
Hero ($825): Checks, with intention of letting WC#1 bomb away and I snap him off expecting all others to fold.
WC#1($420): Bets $70
VGP ($1,475): Tank Calls
WC#2: Folds
Hero ($825): What should I do here?!?!

My options as I see:
1) Call - Calling seems pretty weak and could make my hand harder to play out over the coming streets as I am out of position. But, WC#2 is almost guaranteed to jam the turn so in the off chance he is completely bluffing I still keep that in the hand.
2) Raise Small, $150-170ish - If I raise small, I think there is a high probability that WC#2 jams his stack in. This would put VGP in a tough spot because he'd be in the middle with action re-opened back to me. Of course if WC#2 folds or just calls, then that could potentially backfire against me on most turns that I don't boat up on.
3) Normal Raise, $260 - $300 - Plus side:Builds pot, puts pressure on both opponents. Allows for less than pot size all in on turn for "safe cards". Down Side: Would give VGP good odds to come along with his holdings after WC#2 either calls or Jams.
4) All In - again, WC#2 doesn't fold much so I'd expect him to call. This would make a tough spot for the VGP and I expect him to fold anything not a set.

I think those are my 4 options available, which one do you guys think the best option is in this spot? Are there any other reasonable options I did not include in my though process?

Best option - Go back in time and fold pre twice. Why are you playing 85s in a wild and crazy game? You've got lousy cards, no position and people driving action. Even on good flops you're not going to feel great about your hand, as this hand demonstrates.

As played I raise to the highest amount that still lets WC#1 reopen the betting with a jam. If my math is right that's $175 more.

8d5d is not a hand you wanna be playing when you are running bad, and at a crazy table. Also you don't want to play this hand UTG - it's a gigantic losing play and will not yield a long term profit.

As played you gotta raise here. Flatting will yield too many turn cards you don't want to see, and you are going to be unsure which ones are safe.

In Hindsight, I'd agree that folding pre is probably the best spot. 2 factors that influenced my decision to limp / call.
1) As crazy as the game was, there was very little actual 4 Betting Pre-Flop. Usually a raise from of of the 2 WC players and then folds or flats.
2) I was leaving in 10 minutes and had loosened up a bit.

Neither of these factors probably makes this a +EV move in the long haul, but that's my reasoning for playing the hand.

If I flopped top pair or middle pair and WC#2 bets big or Jams (he jammed $350 in to an $80 pot earlier and showed 6 high) and it folds back to me, I'd happily go with it.

How often do you flop top pair with 85? It requires a flop with no cards higher than an 8, which rarely happens and often will put a lot of straight draws out there. Even middle pair is a bit optimistic, often you have bottom pair. You get owned when V has an overpair. 85s is not even close to being playable in this situation.

Ignoring how awful pre is, raise big gii on the flop.

Against almost all opponents, I'd be right there with you. I've just played with WC#2 enough to know that any middle pair or better is worth getting the $$ in if HU. In the rare instances (for him) that he has an over pair to the board, GG.

One of the Historical weaknesses in my game that I have been trying to focus on eliminating in the last few months is my willingness to play low to mid, suited connectors/gap'ers regardless of position. I've been making a concerned effort to fold these types of hands in early position more often, but obviously I did not do so here.

The dead horse isn't dead enough yet, so I'll beat the dead horse again and say fold pre.

AP, ship it. WC is probably calling either way and you don't want to go 3 handed to the turn.

Fold pre ya monkey

As played you are in a nightmare of a situation - raise 250/call against wc and fold to further action from pro? Goodluck

im going to go the other way and say raise this pre. you dont win money playing passively, get aggressive. or just fold pre.

lol shine on you crazy diamond

remember when you were young?
you shone like the sun!

I decided on a Jam, expecting the WC guy to call and the VGP to fold. WC guy snapped called and the VGP tanked for about 3 minutes deciding what to do before finding a call to my surprise.

Flop ($103): J85
WC#2: Checks
Hero ($825): Checks, with intention of letting WC#1 bomb away and I snap him off expecting all others to fold.
WC#1($420): Bets $70
VGP ($1,475): Tank Calls
WC#2: Folds
Hero ($825): All-In
WC#1: All-In for $350 more, $420 total.
VGP: Call's $825

Hero: 85 (44.63%
VGP: J9 (48.62%)
WC: Shows J6 (6.31%)

Turn: J858 giving Hero a full house and river is not a jack.

You were still behind. You just got lucky but you can't fold. But you should of folded pre flop

What is the point of this thread? Obviously you should have folded pre, and obviously given dynamics you have to go w it after the flop. You got super lucky otf and still were flipping for a huge pot. Fold pre and quit limping these rags ffs

Obv fold pre-flop twice.

I am also not sure that "very good pros" are calling raises with J9s with another wild and crazy player still to act and only 110 BB deep with the original raiser.

On a related note, where is WC2 sitting?

WC2 was the Straddle, Hero is UTG, VGP was Button.

Nobody is perfect, but I've known VGP to be a winning player for a long time in both 2/5 and 5-10 NL Games. Not sure if he's played higher, but I know he's a good thinking winner.

WC2 is a local Small Business Owner with a reputation of torching $$. Seems business has been good recently because he's lost probably about $40,000 in the last 2 weeks.

WC1 will usually buy in for $300ish 2-3 times. I'd say about 80% of his hands are all in by the turn. In an hour or so he will bust 2-3 times and then leave or have a massive stack. His First bullet he raised preflop with T8o iso'd with WC2, he shoved a flop of KQ5 and got called by 95 from WC1.

Point of this Thread: It was an interesting hand I found myself in, and I wanted to hear some thoughts on the turn decision that I faced from other members of 2+2.

Yes it ended up being a flip, which is kind of about what I expected when VGP called. I was fortunate to basically turn them both dead.

Seems the consensus among 2+2'ers is to fold a hand like 85s preflop from UTG in wild loose game like this. In a normalish game I would either fold this hand, or open with a raise (a huge chunk of the time it's a fold from UTG for me). I had noticed that virtually every hand one of the 2 WC's were raising, or re-raising an open from one of the 4 other players including me. The WC's weren't raising each other's opens. I limped with 85s initially, but I would have limped pretty close to my entire range from this position so as to potentially 4-bet or maybe even 5-bet shove.

Based on these dynamics, what kind of range would you guys/girls recommend playing from UTG? Is limping, letting WC1 or WC2 make the initial bet and then flatting or re-raising a decent strategy?

Pre-flop is really bad. Really easy open fold.

As played, definitely raise flop. And if be ready to tack off here even this deep given the description of the dynamics.

You should be playing very tight from EP. 85s is not even close to making the cut.

I guess I'm the only one who would call the flop. Shoving lets the crazy guy's bluffs and thhe pro's bluffcatchers off the hook too easily. You're not folding any turns except Jx if crazy guy jams and the pro calls.

Who cares if they fold bluffs or small amounts of equity? Continuing the hand 3 handed is not optimal. Barely any good turn cards and winning the pot on the flop is great. I think best results is getting 2 folds and taking it down right away.