My casino card room allows a Mississippi or BU straddle. It basically cuts the stack sizes in half by doubling the bet size.

I will straddle to give action, but don't think much of it. You straddle in the dark and often don't flop much to improve. It's an easy win when you hit though and raise to $35 and fold everyone out. I can't remember the last time a hand actually made it past the flop.

Online players should have a good idea of just how bad straddling is. People that regularly do it are lighting EV on fire regardless of position. If you look at the difference between BB and UTG winrates UTG straddling is easily -1BB/orbit and BU straddling should not be as bad but I think it’s foolish to incorporate it into your default strategy.

Ok guys after 20k hrs of recorded live play and filtering for straddled hands I've discovered you lose money from this position when putting in 2bb blind.

I guess I will stop doing it now.

I play in a game about once a week where you can straddle to any size from any position and action begins to the left of the straddle, which creates an interesting dynamic.

I straddle a lot in my main game, whether it's mandatory or not. I have an advantage postflop against a majority of the opponents I play against and I find that increasing the size of the pot from the start has lead to better win rates for me.

Sorry but this is just lol.

Guaranteed if you filtered for your straddled hands you are negative $. There's really no way around it.

Your comment about win rate is like saying,

When I play 5/10 I've found my win rate to be a lot better than when I play 2/5.

I mean you might be making more money in absolute $ amounts sure, but if you adjust the comparison based on bb I doubt it's all that different.

A couple things:

1st: your 2/5 to 5/10 comparison is not equal to what I said. 2/5 and 5/10 are different games with different player pools. You can expect tough competition at 5/10 then you can at 2/5 or at 1/2, and with tougher players naturally you will have a lower win rate. By straddling in my games, I am playing with the same players but at a higher BB level. They don't start playing better because the BB amount went up, they play the same (mostly bad / losing game) that they always do. The good players still play well and the bad players play bad, they just lose more quicker.

2nd: It also helps to create a more fun environment (usually), leading to bigger pots and bigger stacks.

3: In my game the max buy is 75% of the biggest stack at the table (with a max of $300 to start). As the stacks get bigger (whether I win the pots or not), I can now add on for more giving me the ability play deeper stacked poker. Straddling helps get to this point quicker.

4) My normal game is at a private club with no rake.

So maybe you are right that If i only look at the hands that I straddle and at no other aspects of the game, then I would see a rate lower than I believe it to be. But based on all of the aspects that I mentioned, it's a no brainier for me and I will keep doing it.

Also, I don't care if I am making less BB/hr if I am making more $$/hr

I'm not saying one should never straddle.

I get it, you want to do it because it's fun, want to play bigger, good optics.
And you are winning more money. Sure that's why people move up in stakes even though their winrate goes down, but the absolute $ amount is higher.
But don't confuse that with saying your winrate is better.

Fine.

But don't pretend like you are profitable in the hands you straddle. Unless you're cheating there's no way you are up money in your straddled hands over any significant sample size. I don't care if you're OTB or Linus.

Now you can definitely do better compared to if you just fold your straddle 100% for sure. But that doesn't mean you are profitable from that position in absolute $s.

If you straddle UTG, you lose in both BB and $ terms.

If you straddle from the B, you might be winning $, but probably less than if you didn't straddle.

If everyone's straddling, then do it.

Yeah my point is that if you want to straddle sure, do it.

But don't pretend that it is or can be profitable in and of itself. Especially if you're the only one doing it.

It is definitely costing you money. But if you feel that the contribution to the overall atmosphere and dynamic of the game outweighs this cost then go ahead.

But statements like, "I straddle because I win more when I straddle because I'm that good." is just nonsense.

How do you have 20k hours worth of live recorded play that you can filter on straddles?

Sorry I was just joking about that part. But the conclusion is correct.

We are not mentioning the elephant in the room.

The fundamental problem with modern NLHE as played in US cardrooms is that the blind structure sucks runny eggs. One-chip/two-chip structures promote tight opening ranges and nittiness.

Adding a third blind not only makes the game bigger, but it makes the pot bigger in comparison to the minimum open. In a 1/2/4 structure there are 1.75 bb to be won rather than the 1.5 bb in a 1/2 structure. In the three-blind game, opening ranges and defending ranges should be wider. People playing correctly will be playing more hands. The better players will therefore be getting more opportunities to stack the worse players.

Obviously straddling out of position is a big disadvantage that benefits the players in later position. (Straddling on the button might or might not be good for the straddler, but it is definitely bad for everyone else.) But if everyone is straddling, that disadvantage gets shared equally, and so does the corresponding positional advantage.

But to the people asserting that the cost of straddling is potentially more than the amount of the straddle, I have to say that they have a big leak in their games and need to work on their blind defense.

Another alternative to three-blind games would be having an ante. Ante games are action games in ways that two-blind games are not.

There is a reason that when larger-stakes games go down, more often than not they feature an ante or a mandatory (by player agreement) straddle.

If everyone is straddling I would agree it's a better game. Though I'm not sold on the button straddle, I haven't played in a game that has one that was better than the alternative structure. Simply because people tend to play so much tighter from the blinds and earlier positions.

But if you're the only one straddling I'd say it's very debatable whether it's better or not for your overall game.

When I say you are losing money in the straddle, it has less to do with your blind defense abilities and more just saying you will be losing money in that position. Albeit you will be losing less money if you play well than compared to if you just fold all your hands there. So if the default is you are losing 200bb/100 by folding 100% by playing well maybe you only lose 85bb/100 or something like that.

imo you're just adding losses to a position where the alternative would be winning some bbs there. Again this is in the scenario where you are the only one straddling in the game.

How’s it bad for everyone else? Putting money in blind is good for everybody that isn’t putting money in blind. CO gets most of the EV from the BU straddle but even UTG should benefit.

I don’t recall anyone saying you’d potentially lose more in EV than the straddle amount.

Straddles make poker very boring imo. They should just change the game to a mandatory bomb pot every hand, like 7bb's or so. Many nits wont play and it will attract gamblers I think. This should not just be a 7bb ante game - folks need to see the flop.

Straddles make pots bigger without having to move up a level. People willing to limp 2 dollars at 1/2 are just as willing to limp for 5. Suddenly that 10 dollar pot is a 25 dollar pot instead. It further gives the appearance of being an action player even if you're playing fairly tight.

It is game specific. If you are at a table with a lot of action already, then there is no real reason you have to do it. But a few bucks here and there to convince even 2-3 other people to straddle with you can turn a super nitty table into a slightly less nitty one.

So would you guys say it benefits your overall win rate to encourage the whole table to straddle? (I wouldn't straddle myself if others weren't doing it btw.)

The games I play in allow UTG and BTN straddles. It's a $5 straddle in 1-2. I pretty much never straddle UTG, but will BTN straddle im some games. If most others are BTN straddling then I will too.

There are certain games where I will habitually straddle the BTN no matter what. I often find myself at a very passive table where players dont adjust to the straddle, and they continue to limp a very weak range just like they would if there was no straddle. They then fold to aggression the same as they would with no straddle. In this type of game I'd much rather be picking up $20-$25 in dead money when 4-5 players l/f then the $8-$10 I'd get if there were no straddle. Again, it's a specific type of game that motivates me to do this, but I see it often enough that I'll start BTN straddling every round if I've watched the table as a whole l/f at a very high frequency for a little while.

On a side note, being at a table where both players to your direct right BTN straddle every round is the nut-low. It's one of the very few situations that motivate me to seat change for strategic purposes. Having to act 1st-2nd PF for essentially half the orbit is a very difficult situation to overcome, especially if the players to your right who are straddling are defending and playing their straddles aggressively. It really handcuffs you and forces you to play a super tight range, and you pretty much never get to see the flop or squeeze from the blinds.

^ Cliffs: I don't like it when people straddle, and I don't know how to play against it, and if lots of players do it I won't know what seat is the safest.

What's not to like about using a straddle under those circumstances if WE like it and WE know how to play in such situations?

me off the felt analyzing straddling and how to play straddled pots:


meanwhile, basically the only reason I ever actually straddle while on the felt:

Not sure how you came up with that conclusion, but whatever.

Apology, my bad - it sounds like I was addressing this to you.

What I meant to say was "if a good player has these observations, and moves away from the straddler(s) to get better position, surely those players who are not as adept will see the extra bets in the pot but won't know how to adjust their play, which is better for the straddlers".

well how about this

you get three limps the bb limps his 94 offsuite because well it will only cost him 2 dollars to play 15 dollar pot

you make is 28 dollars with you k-7 of hearts and blast 100 percent of flops to 50 dollars. if you get 1 or 2 callers.

is that play profitable? because if it is sure straddle, if its not then straddling can't be profitable because you are putting in 4 dollars in the pot out of position vs 6 people when you didn't have to put in any before.