Hero has been fairly laggy in BTN's eyes.. raising past 2 hands to $20 pre over 2 fishy ep limpers..

1/2... Saturday morning

Same 2 fishy limps, Hero raises $20 with 99 in UTG+2, 1 call ($100) in the middle, reg raises to $55 OTB...???

We were $370 effective to start the hand..

I'm not able to figure out why is he raising so small here with a caller in the middle too? Shouldn't he be going bigger with his entire 3betting range? Is this a feeler bet with AK/KQ/JJ type hands planning to 3b/fold?

What's our play?

He want to keep you in the pot, if he got AA or KK why would he raise big to scare you away


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To deny me set-mining odds?

bc he can reopen the betting after/if the cold caller decides to shove. i think that should be the main reason, but who knows what he´s thinking, ask him

so what should Hero do?

depends on villains raising range obv
against some shove, against some 4bet/gii, against some call, against most fold imo

btw, I don´t really like to 10x pre over one limper as standard play, but this topic is well discussed already

this is the only reason that really makes sense.

Crazy thing is, I have recently felt that a lot of fish are willing to invest up to 60-70% pre and fold flop.

it was standard to open $15 or make it $20 over a couple of limps at this table.. should we just be limping preflop? seems like these 99/TTs in EP are getting me in a lot of trouble postflop these days..

My thoughts exactly.

How often/light does he 3!? In a vacuum, I would fold. If he's been getting out of line and squeezing light, then I'd 4!.

Fold. 13/1 is not enough to plays nines oop. And you have a player whose short left to act.

Villain would have to be a real lagtard for you to be +EV in this spot and nothing in your post implies that read. As far as his sizing it could easily be designed to commit the short stack and/or confuse the LAG who just raised limpers 10x three consecutive hands.

With the shorty between you, just fold. If he were deeper, I'd probably call expecting him to call, too. However, if he might shove (if he doesn't, he should fold), reg can re-pop it.

In regards to the limping question:

At this kind of table I used to raise 99 but eventually just decided to limp it often. It was getting called multiways and I found I couldn't really do a whole lot on most flops. If the table is loose and bad post flop then hitting a cheap set or getting away for nothing when missing was better than trying to plow through half the table.

If the table dynamic is more typical of the weak tight games that many people have to deal with then a raise is probably better to collect preflop money that can be more easily won without showdown.

its actually pretty good sizing fyi. Still gives him maneuverability postflop and still folds some hands in your range. I think as a whole LLSNL forum 3b sizing tend to be on the larger size.

Yeah, what happens is I miss a bunch of flops with all these strong hands that I try to take HU preflop (that end up going atleast 3 way), then either giving up on bad flops or failing with cbets, and in no time, I'm already down a buyin, which is amazing. Not a single hand going beyond flop but down a buyin.

Examples:

1) as above, I call pre getting almost 15:1 and fold flop.
2) raise $25 over 4 limps with KQo otb, get called in 4 spots and give up on 467 board.
3) raise AJo over 2 limps and cbet/fold to a fish's c/mr on AQ9ds board.

In no time, I'm down $200-300, doing nothing.

It's a little better when I limp a lot in LP trying to see cheap flops all the time, and end up $50 down instead of $300 down with the same hands.

All these training videos recommending raising/folding pre, playing aggressively, etc. are way overrated for LLSNL imo. It's so easy to lose an entire buyin in a few hands this way.

Weell ya gotta be caredu there though. It could be a sample size thing. It could also be that you're not raising enough preflop to get the desired number of callers. You also need
To remember that of 5 people call your $20 raise you only need to win that pot 20% of the time on the flop to break even and if you're playing a stronger range that's going to happen.

I find nearly all live players' bet sizing is directly related to hand strength (or sometimes the opposite when they're looking for a fold). I've been 3bet multiple times to nearly minraise sizing like this, and a few times I have managed to see some showdowns. It was always something very weak like 88 or JTs, just weird pot builder shenanigans like that. Dont know what their reasoning was, I'd guess they were basically playing back at me in their own way that is severely -EV. Anyway I think you're getting odds enough to call, plus you do have some showdown value if you can get there cheaply/free.

Javi, what if shorty shoves in between us and V calls? Re-raises (a fold, I hope)?

If shorty shoves I put him on worse pairs and any two face cards. Shortstack fish understand pocket pairs and drawing hands have inherent implied odds value, they just dont recognize that you need to see the flop first before trying to extract. To them "if I ship 66 here I could hit a set on any street and triple up!". So I'd call the shorties shove, but fold if V flats behind him since I expect him to be pot controlling much bigger hands.

His small raise could be no more mysterious than a decent MW hand looking for either a big bloated pot, or a cheap fold - or a free card. I don't know that many players put enough thought into sizing (coz he'd hate life if he had one of this KQs hands and you squeeze 4bet.)

You folded?

Just limp along pre. No significant preflop equity edge and bad position and lots of players to act. High spr and multiway is best here.

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It's either a strong hand like AA/KK that wants to such you in or a somewhat weaker hand like AQ/JJ that he thinks is probably best but he wants to be able to fold if you 4bet.

No, I called and the fish called too.

Flop comes KK7r and he now cbets $45 into $175?!

For a second, I felt like I was playing on Pokerstars.

so he cbets less than his initial raise? Looks to me like a desperation bet. In his worldview of poker betsizing is irrelevant, he cbet and you should respect it. He probably has something like the aforementioned hands and he hopes everyone folds. I'd call with 99.

because someone finally knows how to size bets instead of potting this texture?

Ya that's actually a pretty good bet size ok that board. He's got you thinking about calling with 99 in a 3 bet pot.