Obviously my sample is small and influenced by staying at home watching Poker Go Super High Roller while my poker room in Vegas is closed, but watching the Super High Roller Russia with the normal collection of super high stakes players, there appears to be much less continuation betting that at LLNH in Vegas.

Of course they are showing only the final tables, but in general it seems conservative playing with selectively timed 3-bets pre often irrespective of cards, and other selective bluffs. Granted these are the best in the world and thinking at levels I can't imagine.

In comparison, I know that the 2-5 and 5-10 where I play are very aggressive and even the Bobby's room games at the Bellagio have this reputation.

Yeah you're comparing a lot of different things.

Low/med stakes cash games vs the FT in a high buy in tournament.

Just by the nature of the difference in game formats alone can explain the difference in C bet frequency difference.

Cash games being much deeper and there are no factors like ICM and stack distribution considerations.

Cash games you generally need to bet multiple streets to get the money in.
Tournaments, particularly towards the end are going to play a lot shallower.

Cash games and tournaments require different strategies. Even at the nosebleed stakes.

ICM considerations disincentivize auto downbetting and mindless aggression.

Also, in the final tables of high roller tournaments, chips lost are worth more than chips won.

In Skalansky's book on tournament poker he says a big difference between cash games and tournaments is that you don't c-bet with ace high in tourneys.

I would also think that many players i higher stakes games is better and more aggressive when it comes to attack playees that are over C-betting. So its a natural dynamic that C-betting is being toned down a little bit.

Players at lower stakes mostly let themself being run over, or they dont know how to defend against it.

Yeah I agree with this, low stakes players tend to recognize the value in cbetting and have a hard time understanding when NOT to do it. If you cbet 100% for 1/3 pot when IP like I see some players do, you're going to get exploited by a good check-raise strategy. At low stakes not enough people construct that check raise strategy to exploit this behavior so the players never learn.

The guys who really are open to be exploited are the ones who bet like 80% pot with the exact same range.


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Not necessarily as long as the frequency is close to balanced.

he just said "the exact same range." I knew you were dopey.

Though you're basically a troll at this point, I'll still take the time to respond properly.

You can have the same exactly range and bet at a different frequency, and have very different EV.

What he said here is that it is exploitable to bet 80% of pot with same range.

However, if this person lowers or increases his betting frequency with that same exact range, meaning he doesn't ALWAYS bet, the EV changes.

There are three variables in play here:

1. Size of bet

2. Range of the aggressor

3. Frequency of bet

Taking a bit of time to try to further simplify it.

If a player opens at 20% frequency, his range on the flop remains the same at 20%. In that range, there will TP among other things.

If you cbet this 20% range 100% of the times, it could obviously be exploited.

If you cbet this 20% range 0% of the times, again, it could be exploited.

If you cbet this 20% range at an optimal frequency, then it could potentially be difficult to be exploited.

Hence frequency matters.

The implication was that the frequency is the same. But nice backpedal on the troll attempt. Thanks for giving us cliff notes on flop play.


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High stakes cash games involve a lot of Cbetting.

You must be thinking of shallow stack tournaments.

You're welcome.

There was no trolling attempt, just a breakdown of a foundation topic that probably isn't so obvious to you. It takes deep understanding to be able to break things down in such plain way that they become so obvious to you.

lol. It was obviously implied that the frequency was the same to everyone but you.

"everyone who disagrees with me is either a troll or doesnt understand poker as DEEPLY as me"

Yeah sorry Tanqueray, you're in the wrong here.

When someone is talking about a flop Cbetting range and they say "it's worse to bet 80% pot with the same range as 30% pot", it's obviously the flop Cbetting range they're referring to, not the range of hands you had prior to betting.

Just assume any post of mine he quotes involves him building up a strawman that’s easy to tear down and you’ll be doing pretty well for yourself on that front.


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Because solvers don’t care about initiative and if they are out of position they will do a lot of checking.

In LLSNL poker people play very poorly against cbets. Their passivity lets us cbet a lot both in and out of position.

Well, tell that to Ed Miller.

Frequency, for those who do not understand, is a pivotal element of his pyramid approach.

In order to have an effective Cbet range, it should have a good balanced of value and bluff.

When someone writes this:

It simply states size of bet and that it is the exact same range.

I may have given it too much credit to think that the OP has a balanced Cbet range, but based on the subsequent response and his own followup, it seems that he means to have a different bet sizing with different strength of hands.

That in itself is open to be exploited.

Thanks, you kind of made my point but I am not sure if you understood my post.

"When you open with 20% of hands, you will get to the flop with that same 20%" Not sure which part of this is difficult to understand, so I have tough time understanding how you are misunderstanding this.

So if the range is static, bet sizing is static, frequency, which is how often you bet, can result in different EV.

I actually made the assumption that you understood there are (3) elements to betting.

1. Size of bet, in which you said 80%.

2. Range of hands, in which you said is the exact same.

3. Frequency, in which you didn't state.

But maybe you don't think frequency is actually important? You always bet with TP or always check?

killin it dude