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Old 12-20-2018, 02:49 PM   #1
football0020
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Who played it worse, hero or villain?

not my proudest poker moment, live 2/5, 450 effective

folds to hero on the BTN with 76s opens to 20, villain SB calls, BB calls

flop (60) K94r (no backdoor FD for hero), checks to hero, bets 30, only villain calls

turn (120) A (brings FD), checks, hero bets 80, villain calls

river (280) Qx, checks, hero all-in for 320, villain calls without much thought

hero tables 7-high, villain tables J9o and wins, hero questions life
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Old 12-20-2018, 03:01 PM   #2
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

I don't mind the barreling like this if you don't do it all the time. Absurd call by V obv.
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Old 12-20-2018, 03:36 PM   #3
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

What value hands would take this line with?
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Old 12-20-2018, 03:48 PM   #4
football0020
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by canadiasian View Post
What value hands would take this line with?
A4, A9, AK, AQ, KQ, K9, K4s, probably AJ and maybe AT too because I expected to have heard from any two pair+ hands by now

EDIT: oh yeah, the one combo of JTcc too

Last edited by football0020; 12-20-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:04 PM   #5
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

V soul read H. doesn't seem to be much room left for debate as to who made the better play.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:15 PM   #6
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

I like a cbet with your hand heads up because it's a dry flop and you have no showdown value (but still a tiny amount of equity with your BDSD). However, 3 ways I think it is too optimistic to cbet a hand this bad knowing you have to make both players fold.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:26 PM   #7
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by football0020 View Post
A4, A9, AK, AQ, KQ, K9, K4s, probably AJ and maybe AT too because I expected to have heard from any two pair+ hands by now

EDIT: oh yeah, the one combo of JTcc too
I agree that you rep a lot of legit value hands, which is one reason why I don't see turn and river barrels as clear mistakes.

Don't know if I agree you rep KQ though since continuing OTT for $80 would be pretty nonsensical play IMO. I'm also not sure about you repping a hand like AT as this would seem too thin to overbet shove river with (but maybe not if you are getting called with fourth pair lol)

I think you do rep all the sets though.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:27 PM   #8
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by canadiasian View Post
What value hands would take this line with?
A4+
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:29 PM   #9
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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I don't mind the barreling like this if you don't do it all the time. Absurd call by V obv.
Unless he picked up a tell.

I've had a triple barrel bluff picked off by Ace high before, and I'm pretty sure he read me, rather than it being absurd by him.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:31 PM   #10
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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not my proudest poker moment
Am I the only one that doesn't mind getting caught bluffing? Maybe it's because my opponents often assume i'm a nit but a never feel embarrassed to advertise my willingness put in large bets with nothing.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:36 PM   #11
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Unless he picked up a tell.

I've had a triple barrel bluff picked off by Ace high before, and I'm pretty sure he read me, rather than it being absurd by him.
Yes, it's impossible to say "who played it worse" without knowing Villain's thought process. If he just called because "lol I have a pair and like to gamble" then that is obviously very bad. If he has history with you and is able to accurately call down light based on reads he has developed then it becomes a very good play.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:43 PM   #12
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

I dont mind the tripple barrel.
He must have a good read on ya. But ofc a losing call in the long run.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:50 PM   #13
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by football0020 View Post
A4, A9, AK, AQ, KQ, K9, K4s, probably AJ and maybe AT too because I expected to have heard from any two pair+ hands by now

EDIT: oh yeah, the one combo of JTcc too
I disagree you would take this line and bet sizing with a lot of these hands. AK is the only hand that would do this, and even then you are likely to bet smaller OTR.

Especially w/ over-betting the river, you are super polarized to JT or air (which he blocks).

I think a check back OTT and a 1/2p bet OTR gets thru more often. We get more info when V checks to us again OTR and we have a better price on our bluff.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:01 PM   #14
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

You either missed that SB is a huge station who calls down any pair or you leak information about the strength of your hand.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:02 PM   #15
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by HomelessPizza View Post
I disagree you would take this line and bet sizing with a lot of these hands. AK is the only hand that would do this, and even then you are likely to bet smaller OTR.
Assuming you bet flop with all three then A4 A9 and AQ should absolutely be b/b/b.

I x A9 some percentage of the time however.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:05 PM   #16
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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A4 A9 and AQ should absolutely be b/b/b
You're overbet shoving river with A4, A9? What are you trying to get called by given how the action played out? You fold out so many of his Kx.

A OTT brought the fd, so we can't even rep missed NFD.

No reason to polarize ourselves here OTR


***IMO you are clearly over-barreling and V has noticed. I would want bdfd OTF to maintain frequencies.

Last edited by HomelessPizza; 12-20-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:14 PM   #17
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by Money$Team View Post
I like a cbet with your hand heads up because it's a dry flop and you have no showdown value (but still a tiny amount of equity with your BDSD). However, 3 ways I think it is too optimistic to cbet a hand this bad knowing you have to make both players fold.
This.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:00 PM   #18
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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You're overbet shoving river with A4, A9? What are you trying to get called by given how the action played out? You fold out so many of his Kx.
Uhh worse two pair and strong aces that floated flop?

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Originally Posted by HomelessPizza View Post
No reason to polarize ourselves here OTR.
Extending your value range is the complete opposite of polarizing.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:00 AM   #19
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by HomelessPizza View Post
You're overbet shoving river with A4, A9? What are you trying to get called by given how the action .
By looks of it. Just about every pair and possibly Jack high.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:12 AM   #20
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by football0020 View Post
A4, A9, AK, AQ, KQ, K9, K4s, probably AJ and maybe AT too because I expected to have heard from any two pair+ hands by now

EDIT: oh yeah, the one combo of JTcc too
Why not AA/KK/99?
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:55 AM   #21
HomelessPizza
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post

Uhh worse two pair and strong aces that floated flop?



Extending your value range is the complete opposite of polarizing.
Go back thru the action. V is not floating us with A-hi next to act w/ a V behind. V calling is almost always a pair. So you are targeting specifically KQ or Q9s (A9 raises some % of the time OTT)? Not optimal sizing IMO

Overbet shove OTR is polarized. We should be sizing there (125-150) to get called from a pretty weak/wide range.
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:00 AM   #22
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

If you are barrelling every hand you have here you are over bluffing against players that don't seem to like to fold.
Check on the flop with this particular hand. Possibly bluff later in the hand on certain run outs
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:22 AM   #23
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

Flop and turn are very spewy. You have plenty of better hands to bluff with so there is just no reason to bluff with 76s no BDFD 3-ways, unless villains are both playing weak-tight, which is clearly not the case based on results. You can check back and pick up the pot if the turn checks to you.

If we make assumptions about overall strategy based on the hands shown down then villain is owning you and you played it far worse. If you're bluffing with 76s no BDFD, which is one of the worst hands to barrel off with, then you're likely triple-barreling indiscriminately far too often, and villain is right to call you down.

There's nothing wrong with triple-barreling. Just don't do it without any regard for your hand.
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:24 AM   #24
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by HomelessPizza View Post
Go back thru the action. V is not floating us with A-hi next to act w/ a V behind. V calling is almost always a pair. So you are targeting specifically KQ or Q9s (A9 raises some % of the time OTT)? Not optimal sizing IMO

Overbet shove OTR is polarized. We should be sizing there (125-150) to get called from a pretty weak/wide range.
There’s no read so you have no idea what villain is doing. Muppets float here with AQs/AJs/ATs all the time. Given what he actually showed up with it’s all the more likely.

And please stop saying polarized. It doesn’t apply.
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Old 12-21-2018, 05:37 PM   #25
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Re: Who played it worse, hero or villain?

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
There’s no read so you have no idea what villain is doing. Muppets float here with AQs/AJs/ATs all the time. Given what he actually showed up with it’s all the more likely.

And please stop saying polarized. It doesn’t apply.
I can make a general assumption on what an average LLSNL does here next to act...and that includes folding hands with 1 overcard especially with a V behind.

Using the results to support your opinion is why they should be excluded from posts.

River Sizing is absolutely polarized...Please explain how it is not instead of just saying it isn't.
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