Home game super deep.

UDG open 4 BB,
HERO (me) AQo flat,
Villan in SB 3bet to 25BB,
UDG fold and I call.

Stack size over 400BB

I didnt 3bet udg because he would fold worst and continue with better, also dont mind to play a multi-way pot with 400BB deep if i get few more caller after UDG opens.
When Villan 3bet I didnt 4bet for the same reason. Villan is splashy but good player and if he has me beat will understand thru the hand.

Flop is As Kh 3d

Villan bet 30BB into 50ish BB pot
Easy call. I dont raise because he would fold out bluffs and proceed with better only.

Turn Kd

Villan check
I check to try to go to showdown. In case of a clean river i value-bet.
Here we can argue that a bet is in order but i cant really stand a check-raise eventually reopening the bluffing or blowing the pot in case Villan has something big. Also i only value bet (if i bet the turn) a very small range of Ax hands maybe JJ or QQ, and i block one A already. Borderline IMO

River 9d (3 diamond on the board)

VILLAN bombs 75BB into 110BB pot witch is less than 2/3 but in live game is still a big bet.
I see his value range to be AA KK AK of course but is highly unlikely. He might have KQ but the story dont make much sense to bet on that river. He might have 99 giving up on the turn and gin the river. He also might have 2 diamonds that he runner runner his way to the river (with the A of diamond).
All in all I discarded the option that he was bluffing because im showing that i have something that i can call him with. (already snapped him few hand before).
My read is that he either check the turn with something big and value bet the river or he run into a flush with some sort of Axdd that he magically 3 bet pre.

I fold.

The end.

He later said he had A10 of diamonds.

AFTERTHOUGHTS

I think i can't really do much thru the all hand with the only exception of raising the flop but i still think is not a good idea range-wise. Bet the turn also questionable.
I can jam 300BB on the river hoping he fold a flush or 99 but i didnt have a bible with me to pray upon. Bluff caching now is itchy, Villan got snapped few times as i said before by me in smaller pot but now is the real deal.

Fold preflop. Doyle Brunson once said he lost more money with calliing AQo than any other hand. The next mistake is wanting to go multiway deep. That's the last thing you want to do. You want it to go HU or take down the pot pf.

The last mistake is believing a poker player as to what hand they had after the hand is over. He picked a hand that he was confident that you beat to get you to call next time. If lucky, he might get you to go on tilt.

AQof is not a hand we're looking to play multi-way when deepstacked. Not much potential to make the nuts, you will usually end up with one pair and will find yourself in situations like this.

Are you sure UTG player would fold out everything worse than AQof? I highly doubt it, you're playing very deep, are you sure he wouldn't call with some suited broadways, suited connectors and pocket pairs below QQ trying to make nuttish hands?

I would 3-bet this preflop and be prepared to fold to a 4-bet.

As played, checking turn is fine, folding river also okay.

I don't like 3 betting an UTG open with AQo. We have to fold pre because of the massive sizing. As played I'm honestly calling river, but that's probably marginal.

I think it depends on the stack sizes. This hand is played "super deep" (so I guess 300bb+ at least) which means UTG is going to open suited connectors and in general hands that we're doing fine against. If we make him fold them then great, if he calls then it's also fine, we have playability and are still likely ahead, we just need to be careful and not get sucked into a huge pot. If he 4-bets, we can comfortably fold.

I probably feel fine 3-betting this because in my games there are lots of calling stations who won't miss a chance to call the 3-bet and see flops with their KQs, JTs, 98s, and mid pockets pairs so I pretty much 3-bet AQof for value there.

I want to make a couple of clarification....

I usually dont flat those strong hands and YES i know AQo is not a multyway hand to play.

This being said, UDG open has nothing that will make me win a big pot if he calls my 3 bet instead i will lose a big one or fold in case i 3bet and he 4bet witch is something i dont wanna do with AQ (or a hand as strong as 1010 for that matter witch i will hate to fold pre). For that reason i didnt 3BET.

When the guy makes it 25BB to go, over me and UDG, if you guys are happy to snap fold AQo (or 1010, 99) preflop im not gonna argue but if u fold those hand preflop it makes it a walk in the park to play against you. In this situation my AQ call will not turn into a stacking off hand for sure rather than if he has something big i fold along the way no hard feeling, if hes bluffing i will call him down. If he has balls to put the stack in as a bluff i will fold and he deserve my small chips until he catches me with something big and i stack his 400BB stack.

But by 3betting the UDG and play a pot that gives me no return (in case everyone fold and only udg calls), and the risk of getting 4betted by a random villan by a range full of bluffs that forces me to fold AQ pre i rather flat udg, let the fish 3bet with garbage and play postflop.

But ya i see that this could easily be a situation where we all see it in a different way.

You were mistaken when you posted results in the OP. Too late to unring that bell, but next time get up to your last decision point and write "Hero:?"

I fold to the very large 3! pre. We're not playing good SPRs for AQ in a 3! pot when the 3! is that big.

AP, I probably call river, as most of the Vs I play with will think any ace is a value bet after you check back turn. It's close, though.

Without having read, I’d guess pre.

Yep.

3b pre. Snap 3b

Where did you go wrong?

PREFLOP: The double flat preflop combined with your willingness to take AQ 4+ ways to the flop. I understand your logic preflop by flatting the initial raise, but I still think it's best to 3B yourself. yes UTG should have a strong PF raising range, but so should you when you 3b a UTG raise. This hand is somewhere in the middle of hands you should be considering to 3b an UTG raise with, shouldn't be an autoflat. Advantages of 3B include narrowing the field down to just you and UTG, or potenitally getting 4b by extreme strength, which in this case you can easily lay down.

in early to middle position, I dont really every want to go more than 3 ways to the flop no matter what my hand is. my willingness to go multiway increases the closer I get to the button, but in general it's best to narrow down field with aggression PF in these types of games.

If you don't feel comfortable 3b this hand PF in your situation, that's fine, just fold. You're too deep to profitably play this hand in early position. You're least profitable option is flatting.

ON THE FLOP: totally standard and I think your call in positions is 100% fine.

ON THE TURN: I think you should definitely bet the turn once your opponent checks and for a couple of reasons.

1st reason: your opponent is often waving the white flag or at least admitting he is behind, however he most likely has some equity and is willing to call a decent portion of the time while he is behind. I think you should extract some value by betting and getting calls from inferior aces hoping to chop with a big turn, medium to large PP's like TT-QQ and any potential draws.

2nd reason: You don't block the NFD, which is crucial. A lot of his 3b range from the blinds are going to include suited Ace's weaker than AQ. He could have AJdd/ATdd and A2dd-A5dd. These hands for sure are going to call a bet on the turn and potentially even a river bet depending on the river card.

3rd reason: Your opponent doesn't have my Kings in his range and you do. Your opponent really only has AA/AK/KK in his range at this level (assuming 1/2, 1/3, 2/5). most players at LLSNL are 3'betting suited Kings from the blinds, they are flatting. He only has 6 hands that are beating you and potentially many more that aren't (all suited Ace's, QQ/JJ/TT). With the amount of hands that you are beating vs the amount of hands that are beating you, I think you can safely go for a turn bet and then evaluate the river if checked too.

River: Your fold is questionable and reads based on the opponent. Hard to evaluate without knowledge of V's tendencies. However, a 2/3 size river pot bet is not bombing the pot. It's a perfectly normal value size. Bombing the pot IMO is a pot size bet or more, and I lean towards the 125% pot size bet being a bomb

Flatting the initial raise could be terrible or could be fine.

AP we're wicked deep. So we wanna be defending against this raise with hands that make monster (suited ace-wheels, low to mid pp's, suited connectors) and fold hands like AQo.

River is just a coinflip. The obvious value hands are AA, KK, AK, of which there's 1, 1, and 4 combos. Then some other random combos, like if he elected to squeeze an A2dd type hand and got there. I suspect QJdd/QTdd/JTdd mostly bet the turn to fold out your weak Ax. So yeah, I don't know.

This is also why having a linear range deep sucks BTW. Top pair is a brutal hand sometimes.

Thanks a lot for all the answer guys!

I knew i sounded so fishy and nitty when i said that i super passively flatted 2 raise pre with AQo and when i chicken out a turn bet, but on that hand i really thought about making money post rather than 3Bet the UDG and pick up 4BB in case it goes thru, or fold to a 4Bet with AQ witch i consider wrong range-wise and highly exploitable by a random villan that 3bets with 2 napkins.

I do agree that 3betting udg result in instant gratification, better play-ability of the hand and lover EV but i think poker is not only about that. I think is already hard making hands and also getting paid with those hands so i spread my winnings changes with bluff catching or let the opponent value bet themselves against my range of unconventional lines. Flatting with a strong hand allow me to play post with the best hand on a manageable pot, also allowing player to 3bet light and carry on with my best hand. Yes sometimes they make their hand with those suited connector that they 3bet me with but i surely get away, sometimes i call and im wrong, but most of the time they give up on the turn and i make tons of value in a hand that was meant to go in a completely different way. Sometime i also pretend to bluff and i get called by second pair and the value go sky high. Sometimes im wrong but i find the fold button easy in this games where this player's tail move like a dog when they have it.

This one is the case: checking back turn to induce a bet OTR from a range full of bluffs or induce a thin value bet from (in this case) a AdXd hand if river misses.
In this live games i think the maximum exploit-ability of this player comes on the river where almost nobody knows what to do so they play very honestly, and if they make something weird is so easy to spot.

Do you guys notice that too?

Im really happy though to read all the different opinion and i will definitely treasure each one and try them at the table!

Well, this was an unconventional line Hero took. I guess I somewhat understand your thought process.

But when you check behind on this turn you severely limit your options on most rivers. Yes, V is still uncapped on turn but it's better to bet on this wet board and get raised than still be guessing about the V's strength on the river.

From the V's perspective, Hero has flatted/overcalled preflop. Post flop, H has flatted and checked behind. Hero has announced weakness throughout the entire hand. And yet V checks a brick turn? So strange! So then you need to bet.

You had position on the V but you were never able to use it to your advantage because you surrendered the initiative preflop. V is uncapped throughout the hand and just runs you over on the river even after he checks a brick turn.

Contrast this with the scenario where you 3b preflop and he calls. You now have the range advantage and the initiative and the positional advantage. I think this hand is a perfect example of why you have to 3b or fold AQ in the blinds.

If V 4b you just fold preflop. Simpler I think.

Exactly Spanishmoon,

When you say that Hero only show weakness is exactly what i want the Villan to do: bet his weak hands or his bluff so Hero can snap. Betting the turn would tell villan opposite of weakness from hero.

Also, i want to use positional advantage to win win chips not to make people fold rather make people bluffs. Playing always in position it makes it so difficult for Villan to have a fully loaded bluff range ready to spew. Imagine if u play in position for all your life, it means that for all your life u will make significantly less money by catching bluffs and this is horrendous for your winrate. This strategy put me numerous times in a river decision (when they decided to bluff the river) but is still worth it on the long run by the time A) i have a strong hand to call them C) i raise them with what i believe is the nuts B) they give up along the way.

Lastly, i really disagree with people that can't wait to fold AQ pre or any hand pre frankly.
The reason is that even if the opponent shows me KK or AA i would call with basically anything in this games because thats when most of the chips are going in. Come on guys how many times this player stack off with those hands autopilot??? Is this not enough for you to see a cheap flop?
In this hand i call the 3bet not for this reason of course but in general folding pre is a denial of equity that you do to yourself. I might be wrong of course but the most of the EASY money i make by playing loose pre and super-tight post. Also the nature of the game is that the pot is small in early street and can easily be blown out of proportion later on, almost in a ridiculous way, (sometimes limp pots goes to 250BB) leaving always a door open to fold if you are a good reader of course.

You seem like a genuine guy who loves the game, but there are quite a number of flaws in your logic about the game and how you played the hand.

You're the one who checked behind turn to fold to a strong river bet on scare card.

You should fold to the pf3b. It's quite bizarre, imo, to think that folding AQo is similar to folding 99 or TT in this spot.

As played call river.

You say you could play a huge pot, so you should call pre. Here's the thing. The 3! is 25BBs. That means that even though you are 400BBs deep, when you call you will only have an SPR of 8. That is an awful SPR to have with AQ in a 3! pot, as you'll only love stacking off with a flop of KJT. Even AQx could be crushed against a range of QQ+/AK, especially as the KK portion isn't going to GII here. Meanwhile, you are in terrible shape against his continuing range on almost all ace high boards, and most Q-high.

If his 3-bet range is wider than that, you might make a little money with TP, but really he'd have to be pretty awful to continue for more than a street with a made hand that you beat. As you call him "splashy but good," this seems somewhat likely, but now you are OOP in a bloated pot with no idea where you are in the hand. And that's the best case scenario, other than the dream flop that gives you broadway. Hell, even on that flop, he likely has boat outs with any hand he's willing to GII with.

Playing a bit loose when deep to hope to stack a donk if you flop huge is not bad strategy with hands that flop monsters. With hands that usually flop dominated TPs at best, it is awful, even if you are willing to fold TP to action. AQo just doesn't flop better often enough to matter. I would rather have 78s here than AQo, and would much rather have 88, though even it would be borderline against a 3-bet this big when OOP.

Can you elaborate?

Thanks a lot!

I check the turn back to leave my opponent bluffing range intact for a river bluff, also, i dont like to think about scary cards rather than cards that match or not match my opponent range. The river is a card that complete a backdoor flush on a check-check turn, but even if it was a card that complete a front door flush on a bet flop bet turn, is undeniable that is not to be called a scary card rather a card that increase significantly my opponent value range rather than his bluff range. In this instance i very well might have a flush myself so considering a flush card scary is a narrow view of the matter IN MY OPINION.

In this case i came to the conclusion that his river bet is more towards a "hidden tricky" value hand played with a weird line like AK KK (turn chekc on nuts not really weird after all), some sort of miracle river boat and in addiction to all those, a runner-runner flush with holdings like J10, 87, 54 suited that make perfect sense with the line taken by V checking the turn planning to call a bry and realize his equity with his flush draw.

All in all i wound have called around 60% of the time on a brick river, less likely if the river is something that might connect well with his range (prob around 40% of the time i would have called) and if check to me make a value bet for him to hero call me with Ax of even QQ or JJ at times.

Im really sorry to say this but i also disagree when player say: HERE I CALL or HERE I FOLD because u never know when the V is picking up 72 and want to win the pot at all cost. I think better approach is go something like: HERE I CALL/FOLD MOST OF THE TIME... But is just my approach!!!

Nothing?

I agree that calling here is pretty bad. But loling at 2+2 showing its stupidly nitty side by suggesting folding AQo.