Does calling become a better option than raising if you're getting +eve direct odds? Eg $80 pot $20 bet 2 callers you have an OESD and close out the action

Calling $20 pot will be $160

Do you ever want to raise here or keep people in and raise if you make your straight and give up if you miss

Not sure how much FE you would have 4 ways unless you jammed 2x pot for 100bbs

I'm calling with direct odds typically. Especially 4 way


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Sometimes they do that so they can come back overtop of a raise. Really sucks when you raise to take it down and that happens... So I tend to just call with my draws

If someone gives me direct odds to call, I generally take it. They are giving me the opportunity to make a mistake-free decision.

I think calling is actually better even with decent FE

We only win what's in the pot if we raise but can win a much bigger pot making +ev calls along the way

Agreed with others. When you get nice direct odds, there's no need to bluff. Would be different in a head's up pot.

It depends on the situation and knowing your villain. This is really situational and is something you could write a small book about. If you are closing the action and drawing to the nuts then calling when getting direct odds can't be bad, everything after that depends.

If villain likes to make small probing bets and will give up to a raise then favor raising. If villain likes to price set with his draws then consider how good your draw is. If you are drawing to the nuts then usually call and hope you can over flush or over straight him. If your draw is weak then consider folding right there. If it's in between then consider how much villain will fold to a raise, how much he will lose if he hits a worse hand and how easy you can get away if you hit a worse hand. If villain like to bet small to induce raises then favor calling unless your draw is a monster.

If there are several people in the pot you also have to consider the action. If there is potential action after then fold your weaker draws and favor raising your strong ones. Call only if there is little risk of a raise behind. If you are closing the action then favor calling. If there are a lot of people behind then consider folding anything but nut draws because the risk of higher draws and redraws is bigger and the risk that they are taking some of your outs is very high.

That's good insight, I didn't specify whether drawing to the nuts or not,but that's what I meant.

Another random question, does anybody check blind the flops OOP multi ways when you're not the PFR seeing as I NEVER donk out I think some vs think my hand is a bit more disguised because they expect top pair to lead out, so they put top pair back into my range when I check in the dark

I meant that to be if there are a lot of people in the hand in general, not just behind. If there is a bet and 3+ callers folding anything short of a nut draw might be best.

It's super rare that I check dark. Particularly multiway if I hit the flop hard then donking is often better. Multiway I usually can't depend on check/raising and I might not want to anyways. There are other situations, such as passive stations, where I might want to lead even if they raised preflop.

The only time I check dark is when heads up against a very aggressive opponent that I can expect to c-bet close to 100% of his range if I check dark and stack sizes are such that I would be committed or folding on the flop. Deeper I want the option of donking and I want to slow him down a little. If I check dark and let him bet 100% of his range then I'm forced to float him OOP a lot, which is painful.

Is donk betting a big part of 1/2 and 1/3 games? I NEVER do it. (Obvs I lead out at limped pots but that's not really sinking cuz there's no PFR

There's just no reason to check dark. I might well lead out in multiway pots, basically never in HU pots but even then, there are hands where I want to throw in a hesitation, like I was considering betting, when I would prefer my opponent to check behind.

What about when you have a monster and they bet small into you?

This hand came up the other day.

Hero has QQ and had raised to $18 and got BB and a limper to call.

Flop ($54) AQ9dd Hero bets $45, call, call

Turn ($189) 9x, BB bets $40, other V folds, hero decides against raising with near nuts

River ($269) brick, BB bets $40.

Was pretty frustrating tbo.

Obvious river raise is obvious, I guess you're asking about the turn though, well if there's > $500 behind, I raise turn.

The annoying thing about small raises when you have the nuts is that you know they going to fold, which kind of implies you should be raising when you have air.

The only reason to raise is for FE (or possibly to get yourself a free card on the next street). Both of those are unlikely to happen in a 4way pot, so I'd typically just take my good odds and call if I just have a mediocre draw. If I have a big draw (say flush draw + straight draw / gutshot draw, etc.) and pot is huge relative to stacks, and I know I'm mostly slightly EV if anyone calls a shove, then I'd shove for the slight FE we have.

GimoG