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When to make tight folds (low stakes). When to make tight folds (low stakes).

10-05-2015 , 06:01 PM
I have recently opened up my game after much study and practice. I often played as a full ring nit but now I playing close to 30% in my new LAG style. As a result people are playing back more often, and with much wider ranges. I want to make sure that I am making the correct plays in situations where villains fight back.

1/2 live

Villain in CO has $350 behind, Nitty player that rarely bluffs. Opens limps for $2

Hero has been very involved in the past hour. Has JTs on the button with $500 isolates for $10 raise

Villain in CO calls Every one else folds.

Flop comes ~$25 in pot: KQ6 rainbow

Villain checks, Hero bets $15 and villain calls.

Turn ~$55: KQ64 still rainbow

villain checks, Hero bets $30, Villain raises to $100.

Hero now has to call $70 to win $255

Hero has 8 outs to the best hand, pot odds are ~27% and hero has 16% of making his hand. Without consider implied odds, this is an easy fold. Although, against a check raise from a tight player on the turn (who rarely bluffs), would it be reasonable to assume that he will pay us off on the river when we make our hand. At this point he is likely holding TP or Better, and making the straight gives us the nuts. If we factor in villains remaining stack on the turn ($235) we now calling $70 to win $490 if he make our hand and villain gets it all in on the river. At this point pot odds are closer to 14% ($70/$490). Given that we make our hand 16% of the time, do we make this call if he believe villain is stacking off the river most of the time? Additionally its an auto fold if we dont hit on the river, so we don't invest anymore without the nuts.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:06 PM
Its probably close to a call but I think you misplayed the hand. I would just check back on the turn against this nitty player. If he called the flop, he has a strong hand and isn't going to fold when a blank hits on the turn.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog_Poker
Hero now has to call $70 to win $255
Actually you have to call $70 to win $185. You can't win your own money. Redo your math and then think about the conclusion.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:17 PM
OK, when a nit open limps, what do they have? Small pockets, SCs, suited aces...basically hands that usually miss the flop. We can very easily exploit by isolating them and cbetting, forcing them to fold most of the time. If they call, we slow down.

First thing, we should raise less IMO. We only need to get HU vs. the nit, basically he either makes a monster and we don't pay him off or he folds and we take his money. I make it x3 or x4 at most. No need to just x5 this, it's not a big hand.

Flop, this is perfect. The nit has one monster here, 66 and has mostly completely missed the board. I like the small lead, we might even make it $10 or $12 because he has nothing here so much of the time.

Turn, well he called. No point in barrelling, he definitely has something he likes. My guess is 66 if he's a true nit, maybe KQ if he's the kind of nit that's reluctant raise anything less than AQ or JJ. Maybe he has KTss or something. But really our plan should be to raise pre, cbet flop and then shut down if called.

Also, when we xb and take our free card, we will sometimes river the nuts and then we can bet out big and cooler our nit.

I fold as played because we are not guaranteed to get his full stack if we call and hit the nuts.

Note that we have played the exact opposite of the correct plan BTW. We iso'd a nit, who then flopped a monster and we have decided to pay him off OTT with our draw.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:19 PM
Also OP, it sounds like you used to nit it up and then one day decided to LAG it up instead because being LAG is awesome.

Really style should be a function of playing well, rather than being nit or TAG or LAG, you should play correctly and that means sometimes you look like a nit and sometimes a LAG.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:28 PM
You need to assign a felting probability to "most of the time" also. I think you'll come up a bit short here.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:49 PM
As played check the turn, against a nit I don't hate a delayed cBet, check flop, if he checks turn bet the turn for $15.
If he flopped good you avoid a possible C/R on the flop if he has AK for example or if he wants to get money in now with KQ or a set or whatever, plus i occasionally see a nit who planned to C/R the turn decide to just bomb the turn afraid you won't bet putting us in a tough spot.

Delayed CBets are good against tight players when in position and they check to you twice. If we check back, almost all flop calling hands will bet the turn, a nit will most likely still check hands that missed so the optimal play is to wait for his next move.

Normally this is for when we completely miss the flop, but here we guarantee we draw cheap if he bets the turn, hard to be a ton with only $25 in the pot, keeps us from getting blown off our hands on flop or turn and still gives us a good chance to take the pot down on the turn when he has nothing.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Actually you have to call $70 to win $185. You can't win your own money. Redo your math and then think about the conclusion.
This is what I was going to say. HIs math is all wrong OP on rainbow board and with you drawing to the nut straight. It is better to check the turn, but if you are going to play an Lag style, the right play is to go all in after his check raise.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 07:04 PM
I understand I played the hand wrong. Although, could you elaborate on coming back over the top on the turn, and why that would be a good play?
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote
10-05-2015 , 07:22 PM
Check back the turn.

I agree with RC. I think the delayed c bet is a good alternate line as well. If he bets the turn, we call, river bricks, against a lot of TAGish players who autopilot and don´t c/c enough on the river we can often take the pot away with a river bet if he checks there.
When to make tight folds (low stakes). Quote

      
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