2/5nl

Hero (1100): 55 white male, playing like a nit
V1 (400): 75 white male, calling station. He has a fold button, but can't find it very often.
V2 (500): 35 white male, super calling station. He will bluff -- and then call your raise -- with ace high or bottom pair. Ironically I've seen him check/call a full house, because it wasn't the nut full house.

V1 limps from EP, V2 limps from MP, folds to hero in BB with 99

Hero raises $15, two calls. (Don't be hating on me, I'm just trying to build a little pot in case something good happens. I started to check!)

Flop ($45): Q95

Hero bets $30, two calls

Turn (135): T

Check, check.

Hero?

I'm pretty sure V1 bets a flush here. V2, I dunno. I could see him check/calling any amount with a low flush. I don't see either one of them check-raising.

Do I bet to charge them for the river card?

Or do I bet, figuring I need a little fold equity to make the numbers work? Not that I have much.

Or do I check, figuring some of their outs are my outs, too?

How are two people checking in front of you when you are in the BB?

Raising pre can be fine, but I'd prefer something bigger. $25 or so.
Otherwise we are just bloating the pot OOP hoping to get lucky.

Flop bet is standard, but I'd prefer something bigger. I'd likely just go pot here.

Turn you have to be OOP and they can't check first. So wtf?

Given the descriptions of both of them as massive stations I'm just betting here 2/3 the pot or so.

I'm likely checking here, calling any bet of $100 or less hoping that the board pairs OTR.

I don't agree with such a small raise pre OOP. I would've raised to about 30 or so and then made a pot-sized bet OTF.

Pre: vs players who don't fold often I'm checking and hoping to hit a set and bet te crap out of three streets.

Flop: bet. Bet a lot.

Turn: bet. If one if then raises then call or fold based on sizing. Checking makes no sense. Same plan for river.

Really can't comment until this is resolved.

As for pf, the idea of pot building is bad. Raise if you can get folds or it to HU. Otherwise, see the free flop.

they cost a buck o'five?

doh! I was first to act. sorry. Ran into this twice last couple of days and got the hands merged in my head.

And thanks for the comments re: preflop. I was sure I didn't want to bloat the pot, these guys call anything pre

just tree fiddy

Then check...

OK, first to act I bet. I don't want to give a club a free card. In addition, they're just as likely to be scared of the FD as you are. Finally, LLSNL players in general are lousy at bet sizing. There's a reasonable chance you'll be given at least IO to call a raise even if they have the flush.

check pre. if you're going to raise pre, id raise to $30 or $35 hoping to isolate. the thing is you are going to be up against two villains at most anyways and there are alot of bad flops for 99 so i dont mind a limp. if the whole table limp, i am much more likely to raise to $50 pre if there's a good chance i can pick up blinds or get it heads up.

as played $35 on flop. as played, check call most turn bets. you need 3.5:1 to breakeven if he turned a flush. i dont want to bet fold turn and bet calling sucks too. also hard to get turn and river value from worse unless someone has QT which is unlikely. bet fold blank river if it checks through. with a hand like AQ no club, or red AA, either bet fold or check fold turn since we dont have a real redraw but can still get value from worse

if you were heads up, i like a bet on turn. its much less likely someone has a flush heads up, and when heads up the pot is smaller so you can still bet call hoping to fill up.

Thanks guys.

Yeah I bet this one, they both folded. Worked out. At the time I was thinking, which would make me feel the most stupid? If I got raised, or if I got drawn out on? I decided to take my chance with the raise, and then all the way home (and it was a LONG way) I was second guessing myself

You were value-betting with a set, and wanted to be called by worse hands. If they folded, it didn't work out.

+1

Thanks Slim.

At the table I'm thinking that checking turn would be a disaster, I give initiative to the villains. It gives them the choice to bet me off my hand or take the free card, whichever is to their advantage.

The only thing is, I have a good re-draw. Some of their outs are my outs, and then some. Good IO with these calling stations. And there's no guarantee they will bet enough to deny me odds. In fact they almost certainly won't.

The get-out-of-jail-free card is the idea that they aren't likely to raise me enough to deny odds either.

In fact V2 might just call with a low flush. Which I guess is good.

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I was a little surprised they both folded. We were kind of getting outside their comfort zone.

Checking turn is foolish IMO. Any combo draw will call and there are many.

I don't understand. Why would you want to bet $35 into a $5 pot? The flop is likely going to come with at least one over. We will be OOP. What's the plan when the flop comes KJ2?

KJ2 vs 0-1 player is much better than KJ2 vs 2-8 players.

Against X players, the odds that no one has a King or a Jack:

1: 41/47 * 40/46 = 75.85%.
2: 41/47 * 40/45 * 39/44 * 38/43 = 56.77%
3: 41/47 * 40/45 * 39/44 * 38/43 * 37/42 * 36/41 = 41.87%.

See where we are going here?

Jesse -- don't forget, it's 2/5. 35 bucks wouldn't have been a colossal superbet; in fact, that would be a very reasonable bet size at this game. One, unfortunately, unlikely to fold these fellers out.

Don't ever be surprised if it takes 10bb or more to get the attention of really sticky players.

Yeah check pre, bet turn. I think that's the winner.

Checking at any point would be very bad

I think what people are trying to say here is that if you want to raise, raise bigger.

Don't just bloat the pot OOP. Make a healthy raise that is more likely to get you heads up, or check pre. Either can be fine, but in no mans land, we end up raising, and we end up with a lot of awkward flop/turn situations where we are OOP to 2 people and end up check/folding/burning money on later streets.