Playing 1/2.

I often find myself having to decide whether to complete my SB in a multiway pot.
Most players are making the "LOL OMG.. somuchvalueforjust1more.. snapcall ATC" mistake.

But where do you draw the line?
It is fine to complete SCs and small pairs but what about more marginal spots like for example getting 11:1 to call A7..?
Do you have some sort of default requirement?

(assuming BB is passive too)

There's no right answer here... But I believe if u think u r good enough post flop to get value oop, any hand that could make the nuts should do imo

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Any A high, any 2 gapper or 1 gappers and just about any 2 suited cards that have paint or are some what connected. I read an article in bluff magizine I believe that states this. Look up micro stakes leaks on YouTube as well for some additional info. That's about as good as any "guide" if there is such a thing.

If I'm completing the SB, I'm doing it with hands that have some implied odds, but very limited reverse implied odds (a huge concern in multiway limped pots, especially when you will be out of position). Ace-rag hands are TERRIBLE in this context--when you win you'll win very little, but when you lose you could get sucked in for big bets.

Don't think of completing the SB as calling $1 to win $X (unless it is to win $X plus implied odds when you hit huge). Instead, think of folding the SB as saving $1 plus whatever you would have lost by playing the hand.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...oject-1332035/

Right answer is seldom. I keep it to hands that can flop the nuts. Not the second nuts or a draw to the nuts. The nuts. PP is pretty much it. I'll complete good broadway hands at certain tables but not looking to play huge pots with them. Axs doesnt hit enough to pay IMO.

I have been playing less of my SBs lately and feel better about it. Spike has it 'right' for the most part ... suited, connected, nutty type holdings are fine, even at 6 or 8 to 1.

I will play more if the table is passive and I can expect to get a lot of folds when I lead the Flop with a PSB type bet 'on the right board' (non-Ace boards since I raise a lot of my Aces and they know that) for my image at the time. Nothing wrong with picking up a 'free' $10 once or twice an hour IF THE TABLE 'allows' it.

I dont think you look at this as an opportuity for +EV situations. Its more image building and collecting information on the others. You are OOP and I dont think you can expect to make enough on the monsters when someone actually plays back at you against what you are losing if you end up check calling a ton of Flops that you 'sort of' hit. GL

I wish I played more like spike. I always talk myself into playing to many SBs, (implied odds, cost less than a tip, etc.) It is such a terrible positon post flop, and a big leak.

I completely agree on rarely completing. One of the leaks I have closed over the last year is exactly this. Even if you are the best post-flop player at your table, the SB slot is difficult to navigate.

Hands like 94s/J2s are disasters waiting to happen, so even though they are suited, muck them. You may be getting an attractive 9-1, but likely need a return much higher to offset the risk of reverse implied odds and the small returns you drag when hitting 2-pr.

A-rags can have a very negative impact on your hourly. If you think you can play them prudently (e.g. fold TP OTF), GL, but until then fold.

Thinking ahead in stakes, while completing in $1/$2 NLHE is 100%, calling $1 on your $1 blind, moving to $2/$5 NLHE will require 150%. Establish your discipline now, close another leak.

I rarely complete. SC, pp, etc., are about it. Glad this came up, because a guy recently went on about how you should never fold your SB if there are many limpers, and I disagreed with him. I should have just stayed quiet I think it loses a lot of money and can get very expensive.

I would suggest removing SC's and usually Axs.

Not as narrow as EP, but you should be completing only with the rock bottom of your range.

What about blinds raising range in an aggro table and a passive table?

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I really think this comes down to your post-flop expertise and ability to take pots away in certain situations - if you're only playing your hand for it's own value then your small blind completion range needs to be v tight.

You have to ask yourself, do I really want to play OOP for the whole hand against 6/7 players with 74s? Can you extract thin value and improve your implied odds?

As your confidence in your post-flop game improves then you should widen your small blind completion rate accordingly, and your open raise out of the small blind range should widen too. The problem with LLSNL is villains are so bloody passive! So many of them routinely limp hands like AQ from all positions and so you have to proceed carefully.

Better players are tighter from the small blind. Not looser. I promise.

Complete with KXs + AXs + pp's + high broadways and you're good. Not any of this SC crap they're pants, can't flop TP, can't draw to the nuts on value boards, can't dominate other draws. Just pretty looking hands with no value.

I mostly agree with what everyone is saying here, play tight from the SB. Don't limp any hand that isn't going to make a fantastic hand when it hits.

Don't play K anything unless it's a broadway, esp K9. Flopping QJT against a slowplayed AK is a great way to get stacked. Anything that is more than 2 gapped should be thrown away without a second thought. None of this Q7, J5, T4 type ****. Suited, un suited, I don't care, throw it away. If you can't make the nut straight, and have someone else make the lower end, then it's likely that you're not going to cooler someone. And instead you are more likely to be on the ugly end of a "Can I fold this hand from the SB when I flopped 2p and get raised" post where we all tell you to just fold pre flop.

Oddly enough this is actually wrong....Reverse implied hands only become reverse implied hands if you pay them off. In multi way pots (most live low stake games) are played so ABC that you make money playing A7 off. Hell Ive played and many of you have also where a 7 way pot checks down and the Ace High wins it.

Sure your only going to get one bet out of a one pair ace hand...and you probably should check an A high board on the flop most of the time and if it goes bet early position, and a call you should fold. But you have plenty of odds to check the flop and get a bet on the turn or river....

And if you read your opponets well you may be able to take a pot away, later, I remember a hand I had A8 in the SB completed...7 way pot...I checked, checks through, I checked the dry turn, nitty guy bets pot I call, rivers a blank, I check nitty guy bets 14 again, Ka ching...I check raise to 40, shhe slams down his AJ, "can't believe you hit two pair blah blah blah'".

If you only play your cards and you can't lay down top pair...or come from the school of thought I have A7 A high board I have to bet twice the size of the pot to protect myself...then through it away....but if you realize its mostly a small pot hand if you don't get 2 pair or better... IMO its totally playable..

MY range is pretty much all connectors all 1 gap hands, 2 gap hands down to about 85ish any 2 suited, any 2 broadway, and any Ace.

When you complete a SB, your question should be, "who is going to pay me off?" In a limped pot, the answer is: not many people. Sure, if you know someone who is going to bet out k-high for two streets, then call with Ax. Otherwise, you'll find yourself bleeding chips waiting to hit a big hand and having no one pay you off when you do.

Just.... no.


Have you played like 8 hands in your life or something? I remember this one time?
You're losing money in the SB. I don't even have to watch you play to know this.

I don't want to say too much about this, because the thread is supposed to be about completing the SB...but there is a difference between the range I complete from the SB and the range I play from the SB. We're allowed to raise too.

^ this. and venice's post ^^^.

I was going to avoid this thread because I rarely complete my small blind. Most likely I fold. But if I like the hand enough to play it, I'm not going to let the table limp in. I'm going to put in a normal or bigger raise and play the hand like I mean to win someone's stack with it.

Pretty much the same goes for the bb, but obviously, you can just check back your trash.

But mostly, just fold.

And, BTW, if you play AXs, just remember that you're going to have kicker problems if $$$ starts going into the pot if all you got is your A.

I agree with keeping a very tight completion range. At some tables I probably never complete and simply raise or fold against three or less limpers.

One thing I would say, however, is that it's very bad for our meta game to draw attention to the fact that we're doing this. If one fish starts to argue about it being only $1 more, shrug your shoulders and change the subject. This and waiting 8 hands to post are the two instances in which fish seem to start recognizing nitty play and start to give us more credit than we want when we flop big.

you're fooling yourself if you think they notice. The few times someone says something about it, I just say my cards were "that bad."

Well when I get answers like this, it makes it kind of hard to make a logical argument...but for calling a hand like A7

lets try injecting a little math (I know insults are easier and more fun, but calling every opponent a big donk fish did not help my win rate, I know I did it for a while, going home and doing the math did)...

your getting 11 to 1 or better odds . You are not loosing more then 1 bet when you hit top pair and if you play a one pair hand reasonably your often not even going to loose 1 bet when you are beat... (of course if you games are full of agro tags and lags who attack every multi way flop semi bluff really well in multi way pots, float and turn 2nd pair into a bluff a lot ect...then by all means my argument goes away).

You will hit top pair or better more then 20% of the.

You hit top pair about 17% on the flop thats about 1 out of 6 times. even if you figure that when you hit top pair and play it well you break about even or even loose a little on future bets...you still making money (or at worst breaking even) from the original 11 to 1 direct odds. so even if you never hit better then top pair your making a little money.

But the good news is you do sometimes hit better then top pair and when you do you have reverse implied odds in you favor on those hands because unlike you (hopefully) they pay off more often. . Sure you only hit 2 pair or better 3.47% of the time (and more often if you get to see the turn and the river which "surprise" in passive games if pretty often)..but you have a good chance of being paid off by top pair and better for few bets and second pair for 1 some times, and depending on how good your reads are once again you can lay 2 pair down sometimes when your opponents ABC play tells you are beat but they often can not.


Add to this those times that bet sizing or other tells tell you you can take the hand away from some one...because hopefully you have reads on your opponent...(you know the "I remember the hand").

Yes I will agree that if you only play your two cards have trouble laying down top pair, don't hand read at all (mulit way limped pots are by far the easiest place to hand read), folding A7 is fine.