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Old 06-14-2021, 10:28 PM   #1
Mr.Jones
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What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

Had a spot today where I folded folded QQ pre vs an unknown 28 year old kids all-in. I call all-in's with queen's all the time depending on the villain / if he's tilting / or many other factors.

My question for you guys is, in 1-2 to 2-5 100bb games. What is the correct number of bb's we should be risking to call an all-in with QQ preflop ****vs an unknown, average low stakes player*****

Obviously this is a general question, but risking 100bb w QQ with no reads, for example can't be correct.

My particular hand history. I was $400 effective vs an unknown 28 year old kid, live 2-5. Table for 10 mins, doubt he had any solid reads on me.

He opens to $15, one caller, I 3 bet QQ otb to $60, then he jams $400.

I folded, he didn't show. Wanted to find a better spot being that I had zero reads. If we were closer to $300 effective / 60bb's I would have called.

What's your guys general rule for stacking off with Queen's?

Last edited by Mr.Jones; 06-14-2021 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:32 PM   #2
Garick
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

4-bet jam, 28yo? Seems like he's hoping for a fold given the sizing, which means I think AK is firmly in his range and AA/KK may be discounted. I call it off.

Same stacks but a 5 bet jam from a 50yo? insta fold.

So it's not just number of BBs.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:12 PM   #3
DooDooPoker
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

yeah i call this- its 80bbs
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:46 PM   #4
hitchens97
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

I'm in the assume a 4-bet for 60+BB from someone I have no history of is likely KK/AA. and I'm not going off age stereotypes to adjust. Even if you include a discounted AK (say half as freequent), it's hardly massively EV- to fold.
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Old 06-15-2021, 12:33 AM   #5
monikrazy
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

Vs unknown, younger player - at least 100bb. Probably more.
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:29 AM   #6
mr. degen
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

There isn’t a specific bb limit. It depends on the action. In this case I’d range an unknown to jj-Kk and AK which makes this a clear call.
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:14 AM   #7
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

there are always reads in live poker.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:19 AM   #8
Yeodan
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

I'd probably fold in this spot.

I'd probably consider folding KK in this spot and then sigh-call, only to run into AA once again.

My experience with live games so far is people only 3bet JJ+
Haven't seen much 3betting with AK, but seen plenty of limps and calls with it.

I don't hate calling, but it's probably slightly -EV against the average, unknown live low stakes player.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:47 AM   #9
venice10
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
there are always reads in live poker.
Thank you for stating this.

Stack size would have a minimal impact and frankly I more inclined to call the bigger the stacks. I'd go with the old Mike Caro rule, "if a villain wants you to do something, disappoint them."
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Old 06-15-2021, 12:44 PM   #10
browni3141
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

You shouldn't have a constant stackoff threshold. Action and positions matter. I feel like too many people in this forum just stop being positionally aware as soon as there's a 3!+.

I think the example hand is a pretty straightforward call regardless, but you should include the position he opened from.
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:00 PM   #11
Mr.Jones
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

He opened utg.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:21 PM   #12
hyperknit
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

I’m calling off.

There’s a flat caller which means u make a squeeze play sometimes and he has to push AKo to punish the squeeze play.

So I can’t fold QQ here, even JJ Is close but I might find the fold.

If there’s no call in between then he’s more incentivized for have some flats so his 4! Range is more polar and maybe I can let the QQ go.... probably not tho
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:19 AM   #13
Tanqueray
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

In one week, I folded QQ 3x to 4bet jam.

1st was shown KK.
2nd was close, he showed AK.
3rd time was also KK.
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Old 06-16-2021, 01:34 AM   #14
hyperknit
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Re: What's your QQ stackoff threshold vs no read unknown?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray View Post
In one week, I folded QQ 3x to 4bet jam.

1st was shown KK.
2nd was close, he showed AK.
3rd time was also KK.


Was it a squeeze dynamic or a naked 3 naked 4?
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