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What's do you do here? What's do you do here?

12-19-2013 , 11:20 PM
Live 1/2 game at casino.
A tricky player in Seat 6 just lost a $800 pot with AJ trying to represent the best hand on an AK flop. (Lost to AQ in seat 2).
Seat 6 rebuys for 500 more and straddles in front of big blind.

I'm in Seat 9 - playing TAG - I've got $470 behind.
I wake up with K K.

I raise it to $20.
All fold except Seat 6 who's on tilt. He calls.

Pot: $43
Flop: Q 9 6

S6 donk bets $30.
I smooth call.

Pot: $103
Turn: 4

S6 bets $110.

I'm thinking it's a fold or shove decision.
Hero???

Last edited by HiroNakamara; 12-19-2013 at 11:38 PM.
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12-19-2013 , 11:23 PM
Call

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12-19-2013 , 11:43 PM
He's spewing no call in your arsenal? But I'd pick shove in your between the two

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12-19-2013 , 11:48 PM
Gross.

I fold here. Given V is tilting spewmaniac, really tough to range him.

Sure he could have whiffed and trying to scare you off, which a PSB with Hero holding top pair to the board should accomplish.

He could also easily have woken up with 22-QQ which is PF call territory (he definitely raises KK+, probably AK, maybe JJ+) or just called some ugly trashy 2P.

You could shove and only get called by better.

You could also consider it a donation to a tilting player and GII on a better spot (optimally where we flop the nuts or near nuts).
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12-19-2013 , 11:50 PM
I'm really confused as to what you're afraid of. Maybe he has a jankity two pair? If he's tilting he can have all kinds of stupid stuff. Just call and let him bluff the river.
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12-19-2013 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
I'm really confused as to what you're afraid of.
Not necessarily afraid of anything he has. Thinking if he's got any Q or JT - and he doesn't improve on river then i don't get any more chips.
A shove here might look bluffy (like AK) and I'd get a double up with the best hand.

I don't like calling as I don't know where he's at. The only hand I think fits the way he plays is 99. But think there's a slim chance he has that.

Would prefer to be the aggressor.
What if a blank hits the river and HE goes all in? Then what?

Is this line of thinking flawed?
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12-20-2013 , 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara
What if a blank hits the river and HE goes all in? Then what?

Is this line of thinking flawed?
Then we are Way Way Ahead/Way Way behind.
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12-20-2013 , 12:14 AM
You're at the wrong decision point. It isn't on the turn, it is on the flop.

All you beat are bluffs and TP. The hand is fixed, whoever is leading on the flop is most likely going to win the hand at showdown. If he has TP, he's got 5 outs to beat you. If he's ahead, you might only have 2 outs. Now you have to play the player. If he's not going to tilt, the time to fold is on the flop. He knows you're representing a big hand.

If he's going to drive TP to stack off, then call the flop, turn and if he doesn't put everything in on the river, raise.
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12-20-2013 , 12:17 AM
Only if he is as on tilt as you say he is, I put him on AQ or KQ.

I think folding is the wrong move with your stack size. If you were playing for $800, I might be more cautious, but in this case I am tempted to suggest a min raise.

It looks super strong, but he will have a very tough time getting away from the hand with that bet sizing. (Once again if he is on tilt). If he makes that call, you can pretty much shove every river.

But if you push all in, he might be able to avoid calling.

Maybe I am being super aggressive, which I really normally am not, but I also know when you can "sense" someone on the table is on tilt and I just pray I get hands like this against them at that moment.
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12-20-2013 , 12:18 AM
Don't ever fold against someone who is on tilt. Yeah, you're the one he has it against, but I GII and I'm happy about it.
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12-20-2013 , 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara
Live 1/2 game at casino.
A tricky player in Seat 6 just lost a $800 pot with AJ trying to represent the best hand on an AK flop. (Lost to AQ in seat 2).
Seat 6 rebuys for 500 more and straddles in front of big blind.
What went down in said hand?
Did he lead/lead/lead? Did he ck/raise a flop/turn?

If he was leading at any point in that hand I'd call down here and feel pretty amazing about it.

He can have lots of AQ/KQ/QJ/JT/78 type hands in his range.
I'm just not sure if I'm going to stick it in on the river or just call when he bets.

One the river you have a pot sized bet left, and he's betting ~pot the whole way, so it likely won't matter though.

Call.
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12-20-2013 , 01:33 AM
If he continues this line, id rather put my money in now.

On the river, pot will be ~300 and heros stack is also about 300. Its a easy all in bet from V either as bluff or as value, and if we are pretty much calling the river because we want to let him bluff, that means we have the best hand already. That being said, i dont think necessarily only hands that beat us can call. Given the pot size and v's tilt, hes also getting 2:1 to call with aq, jt, and 78. For this specific spot, i would rather gii.
Let's also not forget that our hand is under repped on flop. I dont think the V will expect aa/kk/qq to play this way, so his bet on the turn doesnt make sense as a value bet.
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12-20-2013 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
What went down in said hand?
Did he lead/lead/lead? Did he ck/raise a flop/turn?
In previous hand: He raised pre-flop to 20 or so from BB and got called by two players (I think)
Flop: A K 4d
He bets 65 and S2 calls.
T: 8d
He bet 125
S2 tanks and shoves for rest of stack - 240 on top of bet.
S6 insta-calls with AJ.
S2 shows AQ.
River: 2c

Last edited by HiroNakamara; 12-20-2013 at 01:57 AM. Reason: clarify answer
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12-20-2013 , 01:55 AM
What does tricky mean? And when you say he lost 250bb stack he turned AJ into a bluff? Did he think he had the best hand? This seems like a tilty and bad player... Not tricky. I am calling flop, turn and river and letting him spew off another big stack with 1 pair. Only river I fold are Qs and maybe Ace rivers.

What was the straddle amount? Was it 4$ if so I may even bet more pre flop but it depends. We can't be folding big pairs to crappy Vs that love defending their straddles. Also we are in position so we get to see why he does on the river. If it's a blank and he checks I may even go for a value bet on the river.

Last edited by Mr_Doomed; 12-20-2013 at 02:22 AM.
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12-20-2013 , 02:28 AM
Ok reading the hand above it sounds like he really over values top pair. I don't understand how you ever consider folding this.
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12-20-2013 , 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed
Ok reading the hand above it sounds like he really over values top pair. I don't understand how you ever consider folding this.
+1

Also, you have KK against someone spewing on tilt. Why are you slow playing? Turn on the jets, get that money in two weeks ago. Sometimes you get unlucky and he makes a better hand on that flop, but given the reads he is going to pay you off with worse just as often.
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12-20-2013 , 03:53 AM
We're pretty deep otf with just 1 pair, but given the tilt factor I would have raised.

Did you think he was going to donk otf and then check ott? Or was it just the sizing that halted you ott? Didn't expect a full PSB.
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12-20-2013 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
We're pretty deep otf with just 1 pair, but given the tilt factor I would have raised.

Did you think he was going to donk otf and then check ott? Or was it just the sizing that halted you ott? Didn't expect a full PSB.
In a Straddle pot, we r less than 100bb deep

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12-20-2013 , 09:28 AM
It would be reasonable to raise the flop or turn, but I don't mind letting this guy blast it off, assuming he's on tilt after the last hand. I'd plan on calling another bet on the river as long as it isn't a queen.
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12-20-2013 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara
Not necessarily afraid of anything he has. Thinking if he's got any Q or JT - and he doesn't improve on river then i don't get any more chips.
A shove here might look bluffy (like AK) and I'd get a double up with the best hand.
I don't think a shove by you looks like a bluff at all. Unless you've been playing like a maniac, there's no reason for him to think you're bluffing.

Quote:
I don't like calling as I don't know where he's at. The only hand I think fits the way he plays is 99. But think there's a slim chance he has that.
This doesn't seem like a good argument against calling. You'll rarely know exactly "where he's at," but I think you can feel pretty good about your hand against his range.

Is he really going to overbet the turn with a set on that board? That doesn't seem like a great way to get value.

Quote:
What if a blank hits the river and HE goes all in? Then what?
He'd be betting 310 into 323. That's a tough spot, but cross that bridge when you get there.
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12-20-2013 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
In a Straddle pot, we r less than 100bb deep

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I know that, most Vs if you had them convert a bet post flop into BB would divide by 2 though not 5, if the opponent isn't converting it I'm not.
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12-20-2013 , 11:24 AM
i wud call here for sure
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12-20-2013 , 11:45 AM
Just call and let him blast off with a Q. Shoves rarely gets called from worse.
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12-20-2013 , 11:50 AM
You'd have to really hate money to ever consider folding here.

I'd raise turn most of the time unless I had a read he had a super wide air range.

Usually raising flop donk as well.
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12-20-2013 , 12:11 PM
can't believe this is a question OP, just shove. If he has you beat he has you beat.
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