Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. Just played a marathon session at $1/$2.

I ended up folding OTT, and both the Straddler and Donk Leader got it in OTR. They both flopped 87o for the nut straight.

I think calling OTF is much better here in retrospect.

Also a note on Donk Lead Sizing. The Size of the Donk Bet (Theoretically) doesn't affect the EV of it. So a $25 Donk Lead has the same EV (although it is done at a higher frequency) than a $50 Donk Bet.

In fact most flop bets (whether it be a c-bet or donk bet) in SRP have a less than ~1% EV differential between them in sizings. This changes OTT and in 3bet/4bet pots. But it is just something to note.

People almost never donk bet with a flopped straight. Depending on what the turn and river were and how the action went, you could've easily have lost a lot more by just calling the flop bet. I definitely wouldn't conclude that raising was wrong based on this one hand.

I think you'd do well getting away from that style choice default argument by the way. Rocking a North Face jacket in the Maldives is also a style choice, but hey, it'll keep you dry so it works for you.

The JJ raise is just an old school freeze/tough guy type play where you are hoping to achieve a showdown/river at the cost of the raise while simultaneously 'making him pay' and if you're lucky, forcing folds from IP and the checking range. It's a streetball tactic, an exploit, and that's fine against the worst players on Earth. $100 buys you all that, if you're lucky. The downside of course is that you get called in a spot or two and are not stuck with fractional effective stacks left against ranges that are now-dynamic/already nutted. The sum of the pot growing+the board revealing exponentially anchors as those two factors converge. Making it 100 accelerates that process.

MikeStarr....."I see where you're coming from but I prefer my way"
AmanaPlan..."I am the god of poker and everything I say is 100% correct"

That's the jist of it. No need to discuss it any further.

The more multiway it is, the bigger the pot (and worth winning), the more drawy the board / action killers, then the more people will be inclined to donk with ~nuttish hands.

Grespectthedonkinthesespots,imoG

No no. I just think you get stuck in your own echo chamber. I promise you I’m as humble as they come, but when I see a line of thinking like ‘it works for me” I can’t help but suggest try something that might work better for you, or at least imagine that such a thing exists.

Hand I played 15 minutes ago in 1/2:

Limps to me, I make it $20 OTB with TsTd. 5 callers.

Flop: 532ssc

Checks to MP who bets $20 with $120 stack, I raise to $50. Loose player in UTG with $200 stack calls and MP calls.

River: 9d.

Check, check, I pot it, fold, fold.


In my experience small donk leads are usually weak hands or draws. In this case there are 24 combos of overpairs (66-99) that MP would play this way, plus all other combos of straight draws and flush draws. It's exceedingly weak to let a donk bettor set their price on the flop. My standard reaction is to raise to the smallest price I think will get the pot heads up. For me this small raise will strike a good balance between getting value and protecting my stack against the larger stacks at the table.

Almost exactly not the same hand.

Its similar enough to make the point. Very coordinated rag board and someone donks out with a small bet. Stacks sizes are different is the main thing, but it still is an example of someone donking with a weak hand or a draw. Thats what they have the vast majority of the time.

Yeah, it's not as dangerous a board texture (in the sense of number of flopped two pairs). But none of the arguments in this thread for just calling are sufficiently nuanced to distinguish between my hand and DooDoo's. I feel like DooDoo's takeaway is never raise connected boards with overpairs, which is fine, but it's not the only way to play.

In your example the SPR is 1 vs 5.5 in this hand. Future street playability doesn’t matter when we can just GII on the flop. Being more capped than our opponents also isn’t a big deal with shorter stacks.

I don't judge that as a significant difference and here's why (please correct me if I'm wrong). You're advocating theoretically sound poker against players who have no idea what SPR means, and who judge decisions in terms of absolute value of bet size versus pot odds. Both the guy who raised and the player who cold called in my hand are playing their ranges the exact same way with $200 stacks as they are with $600 stacks, so why shouldn't we? Of course I wouldn't have potted the turn if one of the $600 stacks at my table had called my flop bet. But that isn't really relevant to the flop play, which is what OPs decision was about.