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Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5

03-15-2018 , 09:52 AM
Table is overall passive and Vs are unknowns. Been here for about an hour.

I take blame for putting myself in the spot considering my preflop action. I got out of line when I normally don't, as I rarely overlimp unless it's suited Ks, some QTs/JTs/T9 hands or a few small pairs when squeezes aren't working and stacks aren't deep.

Hero (120bbs) has been playing very aggressive pre and post, although more TAG than LAG. I've shown a mix of 3bets and heavy RFI in LP pre with some EP raises as well. Moderate squeezing. Pushing people around postflop with bluffs and backdoor equity. I got to showdown with a set of 9s against 2p for a medium pot. Otherwise I haven't had the appearance of getting out of line.

V1 (50bbs) is unknown. I haven't seen much out of him since I sat down yet. Doesn't seem passive postflop but it's a small sample size.

V2 (45bbs) totally unknown. Just sat down like 10 hands prior and lost a hand where he called flop/turn and folded river on a 4-card straight board.

On to the hand:

UTG+1 limps for $5, MP1 overlimps for $5, I overlimp in the HJ with 86, V2 raises the BTN to $20. SB folds, V1 calls in the BB, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, I call and we're off to see a flop 4-ways.

Flop (16bbs): T97

V1 checks, MP1 checks, I check, V2 cbets 10bbs. V1 thinks for 10 seconds and then shoves for 50bbs. MP1 folds. Hero?

Can I find a fold here with the stack sizes being fairly on the smaller size against unknowns? Is there enough semi-bluffs here that I have to find a call?
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 10:49 AM
Yuck. I guess I would have raised pre if I was gonna play but I also would have folded after thew BTN raise.

Yes I think you can fold now. Stupid end of the str8 on a 3 flush board is rarely, if ever good when multiple players show interest for stacks. Even if you are good right now, there are way too many cards to come versus two all-in's to fade.
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 10:50 AM
I really dislike your flop check. There's only one player left after you and even though hes the preflop raiser, hes going to check back too often on a monotone flop to let everyone have a free card here.

As played, Im not folding. Its not very easy to flop a flush, its unlikely either has J8 and they arent deep. Never ever folding this.
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03-15-2018 , 10:55 AM
They don't have enough money to call that raise pre. They have no more than 50 big blinds. Fold to the pf raise.

Just jam the flop, they have only 45 big blinds left? Easy snap auww weeen.

Edit: I didn't mean open jam, jam over the raise or donk out for like 75

Last edited by Playbig2000; 03-15-2018 at 11:11 AM. Reason: see edit info above
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I really dislike your flop check. There's only one player left after you and even though hes the preflop raiser, hes going to check back too often on a monotone flop to let everyone have a free card here.

As played, Im not folding. Its not very easy to flop a flush, its unlikely either has J8 and they arent deep. Never ever folding this.
Gonna say I think this is may be a small leak multi-way. HU I agree, but more than one player decidedly increases the chance that you are beaten (and u can't improve). Combine that with the chances that all other draws are live against you (higher str8, flush with 1 card and boat for sets) and I think it turns it intro a fold.
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I really dislike your flop check. There's only one player left after you and even though hes the preflop raiser, hes going to check back too often on a monotone flop to let everyone have a free card here.

As played, Im not folding. Its not very easy to flop a flush, its unlikely either has J8 and they arent deep. Never ever folding this.
I checked with the intention to check-raise jam the BTN or to just overpot/fold the turn on a non-spade. Felt dirty donk jamming 46bbs effective into a 16bb pot on the flop 4-ways with two guys checking before me. Didn't think I'd be likely to be called by worse.

As far as pre, I don't normally ever overlimp here but I felt like the table dynamic was passive enough postflop such that I could profitably outplay people. This is pretty much the grossest spot I could possibly get myself into with exactly this hand. Almost amusing when you look at it that way. Once I overlimped pre though, I figured I would call getting almost 5.5:1. In general this is a 3b/squeeze/fold spot for me, though. I know I butchered pre a bit although I don't think it was totally terrible with the way the table was playing. I also didn't think I could get my squeeze through here again with my image, so I didn't want to squeeze the bottom end of my range here. Ideally, I think just folding pre was probably the best option.
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03-15-2018 , 11:11 AM
I wouldve raised preflop alot of the time, but limp some. Im fine with preflop. If you limp and then there's a small raise and 2 calls with you closing the action, I think a call on your part is fine.

I didnt mean you should just open shove the flop. I wouldve just made a normal flop bet. 3/4 pot or so.
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 11:18 AM
Ok, fair enough. I guess you meant jam over the V1 check-raise.

Anyhow, I can get on board with the pre criticism, as I knew it was valid in my OP. Looking back, based on my table image, it was probably fold > overlimp >>>> squeeze.

Back to the flop, if I'm donk leading into V2's PFR on the BTN I'm assuming it's a b/f if he calls and then V1 or MP1 check-raise jam. If BTN jams and V1/MP1 fold though, then I have to call.

As it currently played out, who's playing for stacks? I went back and forth on this for like 2 minutes. Remember, that I still have BTN to act behind as well and he could have had this unlikely flop with AKss/KQss.
Tough Spot Yesterday @ Live /5 Quote
03-15-2018 , 06:05 PM
Limp/Raise dynamics here preflop really depend on what the rest of the table looks like in terms of stacks. It isn't clear from OP's post. However, if it's generally short stacked, this is a fold.
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03-15-2018 , 06:37 PM
One factor which strikes me to be in favour of calling is that V1 is unlikely to have jammed with the nut flush, which removes loads of flushes from his range.

Preflop he might have called with KQss, KJss, JQss, J8ss, 56ss, 45ss and 34ss (7 combos), but his flop jam rules out AJss, A8ss, A6ss, A5ss, A4ss, A3ss and A2ss (7 combos).

I'm making the assumptions that he would have 3! AKss and AQss pre and would never jam the flop with one player still to act with the nut flush with such shallow stacks.

Will happily be put in my place by a more experienced poster/player, though!
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03-15-2018 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railbird_1211
Limp/Raise dynamics here preflop really depend on what the rest of the table looks like in terms of stacks. It isn't clear from OP's post. However, if it's generally short stacked, this is a fold.
When I overlimped the original $5, the CO to my left was playing about 200BBs deep and the SB was about 150BBs deep (they both folded). MP1 was probably 150-175BBs deep or so.
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