Playing 1/3NHL late night. About 2:30am. Been at the table for about 3-4 hours, pretty much treading water. Table has been very loose. only 6 players seated at time of this hand. V is early 20's and has been at table same length of time. He has been drinking all night and is very drunk. He has been making terrible calls (called $120 all in on turn with aprox $30 in the pot with 10 high flush draw and of course hit it) and ridiculous raises (I had AKd in SB and limped, pot was $12 flop hit Kh 10d 4h, I led out $10 and V in CO went all in for over $300...I folded) So after watching him make plays like this all night long, I was just waiting for a spot to catch him.

BTW, I had been playing pretty tight all night. Table was very loose, so I was just waiting for spots, but just couldn't connect with the board when I had hands. Table image was probably very tight, easy to bet off a hand.

Stacks
Hero $310
V $750+

Hero limps from UTG with Qc9c (not my normal range for this spot, but table was only 6 handed at time, so I opened up a bit)

MP calls $3
V in SB raises to $13
BB folds
Hero calls $13
$29 in pot

Flop 4d 8c 9s

V bets $19
Hero Calls $19
$65 in pot

Turn 10c

V checks
Hero bets $50
V goes all in putting me all in for $225

So I have $225 to call to win $385

Hero tanks...and I am thinking "I know I don't have the odds to call this, but this guy could literally have ATC, and this is just a ridiculously terrible bet on his part. I have any club (9) plus any Jack (3) any 9 (2) and any Q (3)... 17 possible outs, unless he has a set, and, if he has a straight, any J would at least chop and the J of clubs gives me a straight flush, plus, my pair of 9's may be good" then, just as I am about to talk myself out of calling, V pushes back away from the table and crosses his arms. Im not staring at him, so he doesn't know I see this, and I instantly toss chips into the pot making the call.

I know it was a bad call, but I guess my question is, in a situation like this with everything Ive seen him do, is there ever a time you just say F it and go with your gut?

btw... river was Qh giving me 2 pair and V flipped over a set of 10's.

Results aside, how bad was this play given all the information I had.

You should have stacked him with the AK hand. This belongs in BBV. Seems like you're just pissed that V stacked you.

Hand was played horrible btw. Fold the turn. That turn hits a lot of 2p hands, straights, and sets. V is never bluffing there and reps super strong.

Don't get blinded by straight flush draws.

Im not mad he stacked me. Just a serious question, curious if anyone else would make that call given the information I had...Obviously your vote is no lol.

V bets in to you on the flop you call. Then you donk the turn for $50 and he comes over the top for $200+ ... Fold. He's never taking this line as a bluff.

So then I'm curious why you said I should have stacked him with the AK hand? Wouldn't that be a worse call than this? I mean V basically took the same line there, so assuming he had a set there, I am in a LOT worse shape against a set with the AK hand, I need runner runner to win and I only had $13 in that pot. Would you have called that one?

Fold pre - your hand is pretty meh to play OOP versus a loose table. Raising isn´t really good, we get called by tons of hands that dominate us.

Flop call is fine. Turn, just check back. Very little value to be had here. Give him another chance to bluff the river, we have a bluffcatcher here, no more. If we bink a nice river we can still win a big pot if the river hits Villain too.

C/r now stinks, I still call because I am a station but being in this situation is your fault, and you should avoid this in future.

Also, stop criticizing players for "ridiculously terrible bets" when you complete SB with AKo and open limp Q9s UTG. You are playing just as badly as the drunk loose crazy players, but you are kidding yourself you are better.

Lol. You think he ships $300 in to a $26 pot with a set? Dude is on air or a flush/straight draw. Ship it obv

Hero donk leads turn for $50... he doesn't have the option to check it back.

He can check it back. He is UTG and has position on villain in SB. Villain checks turn.

Oh V checks. Now that just blows my mind. Lmao! Ok... Considering he checked the turn and you bet $50 and he check raises you it's a def. fold. c/r is such a strong play. Not a lot of V c/r bluff. They get tricky with their big hands. Kind of makes me think the AK was a good fold now. V is tricky he might have had K10 or K4. But that board is so wet I can't rule out him going all-in with a flush draw. Seems like the type of aggro monkey that would do that.

Grunch

I would fold PF. Also, posting the results kind of ruined this thread for me. This is too much of a bad beat thread.


We don't have just the information you had. Unlike you, we know villains cards. So we're obviously more likely to recommend a fold. That's why I said you shouldn't post results (at least not when you're starting the thread).

I don't think he does, but that's my point, why is this such an obvious bluff an the other hand isn't? Both plays are extreme overbets IMO? I fold the AK because it was the first time I saw him do this and I'm not calling AI just to find out the drunk guy actually got lucky and has 2 pair and I lose my stack....but after seeing him do this on many occasions And no one called him I just basically got sick of it and thought he was full of crap.

I think he does show up with 2P a lot but I think on that board your AK would have been a better spot to look him up or bluff catch. You decided to do it one hand too late IMO with a weaker hand/worst situation. You were probably behind with AK too but I would have called him there. He either had something like KJ, KQ and was like "Ooh no! So many draws! :shove:" or a hand like A10 of hearts and is making a huge drooler shove. Or maybe he actually had you crushed (doubt it) and was happy just taking down the $26.

The difference is with the AK hand it's obvious he wanted a fold. In the Q9 hand he's screaming call.

Hope that makes sense. Anyway better luck next time OP.

This belongs in BBV though.

It looks like you had a grudge against this guy because of his style of play, the fact he was winning, and the fact he blew you off that AK hand. I think you were on tilt and it affected you enough that you called.

Thanks for the responses. I guess I was just looking for some justification to making that call given all of the non-mathematical variables. This was a live hand, not an online hand, and I just find it odd that everyone wants to give a guy credit for a monster hand who was so drunk he was knocking his stacks over...but hey, obviously you're all right, and I will definitely learn from this one and move on.

I still don't think it's a bad beat story, I'm not looking for people to sympathize with me and tell me it sucks I lost and how bad I got screwed...I'm looking for people to tell me everything I did wrong in the hand so I can learn from it.

Just because he's drunk doesn't mean he'll run bad. Even a blind Muppet could go on a heater.

Seriously, OP, analyze both of these hands that you talked about. Saying that they are similar hands is just no good, they are quite different. Look at the differences between them and try to decide why the first hand is more indicative of a bluff or semibluff than the second (note, as you said, he could have had a set in the first hand, but why is it less likely given the way the hand played out?). I think this will be more instructive to you than people simply telling you what the differences are. If you have questions after your analysis, come back to the forum and ask them.

I don't think preflop is horrendous, but it's probably not great either. I'm guessing pretty good arguments could be made for folding, calling and raising. If the table is passive, I really can't hate on attempting to limp into a pot with a speculative hand being in position against our main target. Calling a raise ain't great either since this might just go HU, although it's for an ok price and we'll have position. Kinda meh overall, but whatever.

I think with TP and some back doors and being in position I'm willing to call a flop bet and see what happens on the turn.

I would check the turn back. This guy has already proved he can put us to tough decisions by jamming in his stack, and now with picking up a solid draw, I really don't want to be blown off my hand. Plus, we also have a showdownable hand at this point and could set up a simple bluffcatcher if we whiff. If we're not comfortable folding to a check/raise (and we shouldn't be in this spot), then we simply shouldn't bet, imo.

As played, tough spot. We're a little unclear if our Q/9 outs are good and whether all our flush/gutshot outs are good. Plus we might be good against a maniac. If we figure about 15 outs (which might be overly optimistic) we're not getting the right odds if we're behind. I probably fold at this point and kick myself for betting.

GcluelessNLnoobG

^^^^ This.

There's a reason V has a stack that's twice as big as yours: he knows what he's doing.

V has done a great job of getting under your skin and getting you to call off light. That's what LAGs do. When they're running good, they're very hard to stop. That's why you should only call raises with strong hands. you can't out-LAG an experienced LAG. They'll beat you nearly every time.

When playing revenge poker - it's best to do this with the nuts... not a draw.

Yeah I'm definitely seeing a trend thru posting on here and and thru talking over hands with players I respect that I have a BIG ego problem when it comes to players playing back at me an LAG play in general. I always tend to try to take them down and get stuck in bad spots.

This is my open admission of this and my vow to stop it! Haha

Thanks for the comments

This.

don't bet the turn

- it's pretty hard for a worse hand to give you any significant value.
- no better hand folds.
- since no better hand folds, there is no value in semibluffing here

there is no upside to betting to balance the obvious downside of getting blown off your draw

check turn