new guy, to the table was playing 2-5 earlier opens to 13 (stack, size like 150
hero cuttof calls with qj of spades (stack like, 270)
drunk guy on button makes it 53, i have been playing him for hours and this is one of his first 3 bets pre flop so i almost positive this is a big pair, like jacks at worst. (he has us covered)

sb cold calls (the guy is a reg and he doesn't really have a fold button, so this could be a lot of hands really)(he has us covered)
early position guy flats.

so back to us?

seems like we have to call right? just too much money in there? i mean the trouble is, its not easy to just smash the flop and a decent amount of flops which are tough for us. but just seems like so much money in the pot.

like, i would probally fold like bored calls like k-10 offsuit q-10 offsuit, j-9 suited, but like 4-5, 5-6,6-7,7-8,8-9,10-9,10-j,j-q,k-q suited all seem to be too strong to fold here. like any pair i would would for sure call.

what do you think?

I don't think you should have any calling range here. Fold your entire range. If for some reason we flatted a big hand I'd probably back-raise with AKs/QQ+, folding everything else and never just calling.

You're not deep enough to play a hand like QJs against a range that 100% dominates you.

This is an interesting question because this spot does come up, but it's not something you see addressed much. Just in general where you are actually or effectively closing the action, the raise size is huge, but multiple have called anyway, and you ostensibly have good odds.

In my experience, these hands play very straightforwardly post flop. If someone has top pair or better, they are not folding. If the flop is bad for them, they'll generally give up.

Here, I think you have to fold because your hand matches up so poorly against the big pairs.

Also, this guy really blasted it with the raise. Sometimes it might be more like 43, call call, and just 30 to you. QJ is still a bad hand to have, but you could start considering calling with other hands.

You can probably set mine in these spots on the assumption you'll get paid off when you hit and do whatever the math dictates there. And occasionally bluff on ace high flops when everyone transparently gives up, which they will tend to do. When it's this much preflop, everyone will assume that SOMEONE must have an ace.

Since you hold QJs, there's less chance of him having JJ or QQ. This looks a lot like AK, KK or AA. You have to fold this here, as you are sandwiched between the raiser and callers.

and the times he has jj or qq and kills you royally.

and no, almost all hands hit the muck here. maybe even kings depending on the player.
with kings your looking at aces or queens. and aces if you get to play a big pot.
they dont do that big pop with jacks and many times with the queens despite that most will include it to justify their bad call.

it really feels/looks like a tough spot but in reality you should he folding near 100% of the time.
with not even a PSB left if you call there is no real flop that you are going to like
you flop TP or any draw you are going to get it in and if called are going to be behind a lot of the time.
yeah the Button could be making a move but I think you just have to respect it and let it go or if you going to gamble it up shove and jist pure gamble it up

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It's all about how deep you are. You're at a lousy 54bb, so this should be a supereasy fold. And most of the hands you mention should be folds to the first raise. Again, you're only 54bb deep.

Grunch. My flatting range with stacks as given is basically non-existant. If we were deeper, I'd be flatting PPs to set mine, and if we were WAY deeper, I could flat speculative hands that can make the nuts.

Post grunch: Homey, this is 1/2. He's 135BBs deep. He just mentioned that one of the Vs was playing 2/5 earlier.

Still too shallow to be flatting the 3-bet, though.

looks like over 4:1 pot odds to me

Ah, my bad then. But yeah, still too shallow, though.

Immediate odds are not the issue. RIOs when we flop TP and almost certain flop shoves denying odds when we flop a draw are the issue. We only love life here when we flop 2p plus, and that is super rare.

not only are you about 50 to 1 against flopping two pair but when you do that hits others hands giving them draws which will take away alot of your chances as well.

with the stack sizes as is, the chips are 99% likely to be going AI OTF. Previous posters are correct, youre likely dominated here. Let it go.

Would you even feel great about a Q24 flop??