Wasn't sure where to post this...

Villain showed up about a month and a half ago in one of the rooms I reg and I have played with him a few nights a week for the time. Solid player, knows how to get creative, knows how to play in position and out, not afraid to play big pots, can hand read fairly well. Have seen a leak or two in his game, but nothing of note for this hand.
Vil has lots of respect for hero as hero does for villain and we both know it.

Eff stacks 700.

Villain raises to 20 utg+2, 1 call by an agro bluffy player sitting on a ton of chips, hero calls in LP. (~60)

Flop KhJc10d

Vilain bets 45, folds to hero who calls.

Turn: KsJh10d8s (~150)

Villain bets 85, hero raises to 200, villain says (in thick European accent) "did you flop it?" 15 seconds later, jams. (no distinct timing tells here, just took average amount of time to make the decisions. I'm also 95% certain it wasn't one of those 'i'm going to ask him if he flopped it because I want to disguise the fact that I flopped it' type things.) He then sits back in his chair, leans back, and closes his eyes. I asked 'did you flop a set?' And he doesn't move or respond. Dude looks like he's in a 45 degree angled coffin.

I tank folded and tried to use my 'one time!' to get him to show me his cards, but he's not an idiot. What does this mean? It was super awkward. I've never seen him do this before vs. anyone. I'm not much of a 'live reads' type person aside from the basic easy ones vs. the fish. I've never seen him do a 'strong is weak, weak is strong' or 'stand like a statue' before, and i've seen him with big bluffs and big hands. I wish I could have taken a picture. Against a fish i'd be more inclined to give more weight towards the drawy part of his range with that action, but not sure against this guy.

His range here (without the reads) is KJ, KK, JJ, 1010, Q9, AQ, pair+fd, pair+sd. Can his actions help me range him tighter?

I think you can eliminate Q9 from his raising range UTG+2 if he is a solid player.

your holding may help to reduce some combos but he is big here

Does he normally have a thick accent, or was this a Rounders reference?

I generally find that when people do something out of the ordinary for them, their range is much stronger. Most people try to avoid weirdness with bluffs.

Aside from saying the guy is solid there is actually very little info (examples of how you have seen him play certain types of hands). Also, what did you have? If you cant beat a set you need to fold this spot. Based on the action and behavior I would actually put this guy on AQ.

It holds smaller weight than other hands, but it's still in his range. I played a hand heads up with him (I was in position) where he raised 7h10h from EP check called me on an 885 flop, (he can float since he knows i'm firing here quite often. Which I was.) check called an 8857 turn and led for 3/4 pot on 88578 river. We chopped both having 8's full of 7's.

It's not very often that he will raise with garbage, but it's in there and it adds hands to his range to make things more difficult for me.

True, however with that wide of a range I didn't think it would make much of a difference. I left it out because I didn't want this thread to be about the cards.

He's no KGB.

And I don't know if he thought it was weird, but I certainly did. I wasn't sure if he was trying to avoid weirdness by going in to dead person mode. That's what a lot of fish do when they bluff. Just sit there and stare at you without moving.

+1,

when decent players all of a sudden do something telly like this I tend to regard them as strong, but not nutted.

From my experience V has a hand with lots of equity that can't fold but simultaneously is NOT the nuts. He's not thrilled to play for stacks but he can't fold and he can't call merely to fold river so that leaves jamming.

I think we can take AQ and Q9 out of his range (as mentioned earlier, Q9 really shouldn't be in his range here.)

I think his range is most likely sets KK / JJ or an AA that is too stubborn to fold. The only way I include AK would be if it also had a backdoor draw but I see the Ks is on the board and only backdoor draw is XY and I can't see V doing this with AJ. Another hand in his range that could do this would be QJ but most likely backdoor candidate is JT. So, if I had to range V it would be KK, JJ, JT as most likely candidates imo

AQ should be in his preflop raising range but its rare for competent players to do the hollywood thing with the stone cold nuts. If he does, then I would submit he isn't as seasoned as you infer and is more of a typical rec-fish. Typically, its my experience that even seasoned players can inadvertently let their nerves get the better of them in big pots when they know they are up against a good player who has a good hand and they likely have a good non-nutted hand that is scared of the nuts but just has too much equity to fold...

IN order to call here, I'd really need to have the straight or JJ/KK.

Throwing this into stove, if I give V a range of JJ, KK, TT, QsJs, and JsTs then our KJ is a 24% dog

so yeah, not looking too good and this excludes AQ from his range...

If you don't know what to do vs an ai when you raise, then don't raise.

Don't like your raise size either

When he asked you "did you flop it," your non-verbal response probably answered his question and he made his decision based off that.

I've seen guys tank/sit back sleep because they don't want to give off any tells. Their decision has been made and they're fine/comfortable with what happens afterwards.

He's got at least 2 pair here. Since we don't know what your hand is either, then we'll just sit back and await your response.

I knew what to do vs. the all in raise and I did it. The body language made me second guess my choice. And your right, my raise size is probably a tad small, I suppose 225? I wanted to make sure that I could raise/fold.

So I guess we are all in agreement that the live tell doesn't change the fact we need to fold kings up. Bottom of calling range, i'd agree with JJ here and be on the fence with 1010.

Thread derail:

DGI, is Q9s never in your raising range in EP if you have a tight image? I feel like it should be one of those '5% raise 5% limp 90% fold' (just a guess on the numbers, probably a bit off) type hands for a good post flop player on an average 2-5 table.

It's in his MP open range in some situations - 2nd hand from bottom.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1219

Ha well played