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What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB??

05-16-2019 , 04:10 PM
I have twp MAJOR leaks in my game and it's costing me money. I am, on average, the most aggressive player at my tables, but I am AWFUL at squeeze situations, unless they're blatant, along with 3 betting in general from BB. I do solid in SB, I believe, 3 betting/folding in 95%ish of scenarios, and usually 3 bet what my MP opening range is in BTN vs CO. If those two scenarios are off, please let me know, but I was wondering:

1. From BB I know we call more often than any other position, pre flop, and should be 3 betting the least amount from BB. However, when do we need to be 3 betting? For example, one time I had 99 in BB, a LAG opened and everyone folded to me in BB and I just flatted and I was told that was an easy 3 bet scenario. If we're calling more than any position, where do we draw the line? Is 99 still a 3 bet from BB if MP opens and everyone folds to us? UTG?

2. How liberally should we be squeezing from BB when there's an open and 1 caller? 2 callers? 3+ callers? I was in a situation yesterday where LAG UTG +2 opened somewhat large, and there were three callers, and I was told we need to be squeezing here with 88-AA, ATo+ - does that sound right? For this question, how much does it vary on opener and callers' position?

3. How should we be approaching squeezing from UTG +2 - BTN? I'm assuming if UTG opens and +1 calls, in most situations we're only squeezing with an extremely narrow range, but if MP opens, HJ calls, and CO calls, and we're OTB, we squeeze very liberally, correct? How can we construct ranges for squeezing from each position? I know that it's EXTREMELY player/table dependent, but how would you go about making a base strategy for these situations?

The reason I have been so hesitant about squeezing as liberally as is probably optimal is because of the fact that people WAYYYY over call 3 bets, and I'm afraid of situations where I squeeze to $100 from BB after open and three calls and then have to go 3 ways oop with a hand like 88 because two loose passive deep stacks came along. Is this a legitimate concern?
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 05:05 PM
1. I think the idea of us being able to call a lot comes from the price we are getting against loose MP and LP opening ranges. If you're facing 7x opens and stuff at 1/2 then it becomes a lot less attractive to call marginal hands.

2. Totally depends on opening ranges, how likely someone is to say F it and backshove, and other stuff like image. The range you wrote looks too wide.

3. I'm definitely not making a habit of 3b UTG openers from the BB. Every now and then against people u play with a lot is one thing but against a large pool of players I'd keep it simple and not do that.

If you are curious just put in the squeezes a little more and see what happens. Start out doing it vs LP open and CO or BTN call. Squeeze works best when the opener/callers are wide.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 05:27 PM
Good questions. Curiously to hear other’ thoughts.

As for me, it really comes down to the original opener. If she has been opening too wide, I have squeezed with hands like QTs. I play tight which means fewer hands compared to others. So I tend to get a lot of respect when I 3bet. Also, I am not always opening with that hand. If I have been getting good hands and playing in lot of pots then I squeeze tighter. So right now, my squeeze range is more instinct than defined ranges.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 05:38 PM
I’ll dive into the advice that was given to me later, but this is a you problem with respect to your image and range. You get called waaayyyy too much because you are too loose and it’s a huge hole and everyone notices. Quick advice is tighten up and don’t squeeze. Instead, look at your table and notice who opens light or folds easily and have a set range to 3bet if you happen to get that hand. And since you’re loose, take that range you define and cut out the bottom 20%.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 06:02 PM
I primarily 3! for value out of the BB, depending on the opener's position and opening frequency. When I first started playing 2/5, I used to like squeezing as a bluff from the BB to pick up the dead money but people caught on pretty quickly. It probably increases your variance unnecessarily to squeeze light tbh. But it's aggressive action so it's popular among some.

Definitely agree you can (and should) 3! more versus LP opens, however. Again, this is always V-dependent. I'd probably 3! as wide as 88+, J9s+, QJo+ against an LP open from a pro. Just calling against nittier players who don't vary raises by position.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 06:13 PM
Generally speaking:
- 3bet wider vs loose openers, ldo.
- 3bet wider vs openers who overfold.
- 3bet wider vs LP openers compared to MP and EP.
- 3bet wider vs multiple callers.
- 3bet a lineair range vs multiple opponents and/or when OOP.
- 3bet a more polarized range vs a single opponent and/or in position. (when i say polarized i obviously don't mean 72o, but hands with good blockers and playability like JTs or A4s).
- 3bet bigger from OOP.
- 3bet bigger when you have a wider range.
- 3bet bigger vs multiple opponents. (allthough i'm starting to turn around on this at LLSNL. People are just too caught up in the real world value of money that people will just fold anyway once we cross a certain sizing threshold. For instance, if the opening raise is 10 and gets 4 callers, we should probably make it ~100 from OOP, but ime 70-80 will get around the same amount of folds and we can get a better price on our 3bet.)

Also, in my experience people don't 3bet from the BB anywhere near enough, cuz they are getting such a good price. But specially at LLSNL, where postflop rake is a significant factor and people often make egregious preflop mistakes, we should definitely try to put some of our best BB calling hands into our 3bet range.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 10:14 PM
Appreciate all of the feedback and useful information, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshMan114
I’ll dive into the advice that was given to me later, but this is a you problem with respect to your image and range. You get called waaayyyy too much because you are too loose and it’s a huge hole and everyone notices. Quick advice is tighten up and don’t squeeze. Instead, look at your table and notice who opens light or folds easily and have a set range to 3bet if you happen to get that hand. And since you’re loose, take that range you define and cut out the bottom 20%.
People in my games are just stations, I am never, ever in the looser quartile of the table...If I had to guess, I'd say my VPIP is probably ~23%, with PFR ~20%, 3 bet ~8%
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-16-2019 , 10:36 PM
I don't necessarily adjust my 3-bet range much from the blinds. I'll up my sizing a tad for sure, but my 3-betting ranges are more or less situational based.

For value hands, it depends on how loose the opener, their positions, and how many callers are in their. QQ+/AK are almost always auto 3-bets regardless of opener. Against a looser open, I'll just lower my range to hands that I think have good equity (60%ish) against their defending range. There's no substitute for just spending time plugging scenarios into flopzilla to hash these out. In general you don't want to 3-bet hands that are very thin profits as a 3-bet, but good enough to flat.

Light 3-bets are a bit different. If I think the opener is FOS a lot, you can mix in some of these. It's pretty standard, but my favorites are Axs hands. The A blocker is important, and the postflop playability is important. If you think it's a good light 3-bet spot, SCs will work well too.

That's about it. Don't overthink it. Range your villain, 3-bet hands with good value against that range, and mix in some bluffs if you think they are getting too out of line, and/or there is some dead money to scoop up. Size up a bit because you are OOP, and add some for the cold callers too.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-17-2019 , 12:45 AM
This is probably too complicated to answer in one thread.

But. Here are some general things

1) you can abuse SB opens and 3b extremely wide from the BB. Most players arent good enough to adjust to this, and also because SB RFI rarely comes by live that you can easily get away with it than say 6-max. You can literally 3b 20-30% of hands in this spot given the SB opens 30-50%.

2) 3b pretty tight unless it’s a LP open or loose opener, or SB open

3) 3b a lot bigger vs non-SB opens, especially deep.

4) dont pick random hands to squeeze because it looks like a juicy spot. Generally, your squeezing range should not be higher than your regular 3b range especially from the BB/OOP.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-17-2019 , 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
I have twp MAJOR leaks in my game and it's costing me money. I am, on average, the most aggressive player at my tables, but I am AWFUL at squeeze situations, unless they're blatant, along with 3 betting in general from BB. I do solid in SB, I believe, 3 betting/folding in 95%ish of scenarios, and usually 3 bet what my MP opening range is in BTN vs CO. If those two scenarios are off, please let me know, but I was wondering:

1. From BB I know we call more often than any other position, pre flop, and should be 3 betting the least amount from BB. However, when do we need to be 3 betting? For example, one time I had 99 in BB, a LAG opened and everyone folded to me in BB and I just flatted and I was told that was an easy 3 bet scenario. If we're calling more than any position, where do we draw the line? Is 99 still a 3 bet from BB if MP opens and everyone folds to us? UTG?

2. How liberally should we be squeezing from BB when there's an open and 1 caller? 2 callers? 3+ callers? I was in a situation yesterday where LAG UTG +2 opened somewhat large, and there were three callers, and I was told we need to be squeezing here with 88-AA, ATo+ - does that sound right? For this question, how much does it vary on opener and callers' position?

3. How should we be approaching squeezing from UTG +2 - BTN? I'm assuming if UTG opens and +1 calls, in most situations we're only squeezing with an extremely narrow range, but if MP opens, HJ calls, and CO calls, and we're OTB, we squeeze very liberally, correct? How can we construct ranges for squeezing from each position? I know that it's EXTREMELY player/table dependent, but how would you go about making a base strategy for these situations?

The reason I have been so hesitant about squeezing as liberally as is probably optimal is because of the fact that people WAYYYY over call 3 bets, and I'm afraid of situations where I squeeze to $100 from BB after open and three calls and then have to go 3 ways oop with a hand like 88 because two loose passive deep stacks came along. Is this a legitimate concern?

A few points.

At these stakes, people often have wide limping ranges, and only raise good hands and maybe as a bluff sometimes. That changes things a lot and is one reason I don't think 3/fold is correct.

Some players will call your 3! light, as you mentioned. But they'll also flat the open raise with AK, JJ and better.

The raises are usually much bigger compared to the BB, and often the stack sizes, than you'd see on something like a televised high stakes game.

So, when V limps 9 times in an hour, then makes it 6x with 75 bbs, it's just not a situation that higher level players find themselves in and you really don't want to be 3 betting your good but not great hands much, and you really don't want to fold them either.

So you just need to recognize your situation, and know exactly what your goals for the play are. If everyone always calls you, you def want to set mine with 88 facing a large raise and 3 callers. What is the point of raising? All you're doing is vastly overcharging yourself to set mine. Plus, when someone has AA or KK, the best hands to set mine against, they will stuff it and you'll miss the chance.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-17-2019 , 02:38 PM
My short answer is... When I have something playable but I expect to outright win the pot with a 3-bet a high percentage of the time.

In other words, I want to have 89 of hearts in my 3bet range so my value hands get paid off but I'm not going to blindly raise it if I don't think I will outright win a good percentage of the time.

Same with squeezing the limpers. If 6 people limp at my 1/3 game, I MAY limp behind with something like A4 suited or 55 but if I enter the pot with T9 suited I making it 30 dollars.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote
05-17-2019 , 04:12 PM
Are your opponents really that sophisticated where you need to worry about this? You can call more, even if the combo is borderline between call/fold or call/3b. You likely can just fold the first kind more in some situations and 3b more in other situations. Calling a lot is good, they're willing to play hands with you! Just destroy them postflop, it's not that hard.
What are general rules of thumb for squeezing pre and 3 betting from BB?? Quote

      
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