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What to do in spots like these? What to do in spots like these?

02-21-2018 , 03:37 AM
1/2 Game at the Red Rock 6 handed.

Villian is a female asian who happens to be a dealer at Red Rock. Plays pretty well and is a standard player.

Hero has 99 in MP and opens to 15, Villian calls and we see a flop.

Flop: A8J (Pot $33)

Hero checks, Villian checks

(This is a coordinated board that hits the Villians range but also hits mine. How often should we C-bet here?)

Turn: Q (Pot $33)

Hero checks, Villian checks

River: 2

Hero reluctantly checks, Villian bets 35, Hero?

My biggest question here is how do we play 77s-10s oop on boards like this. What should my C-bet % be in spot like this.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 06:25 AM
I'd play them pretty much like you did vs a standard player. Her river bet is strange though and I would consider a read-based call in this exact spot. Almost any value hand should want to bet the flop or turn and all draws missed the river. It's not unreasonable that she could be bluffing here but I would still lean slightly towards fold.

If you decide to cbet this hand you will have to bet a lot of turns and possibly even some rivers. Lots of marginal hands are calling. If you don't continue the aggression after the cbet you are just throwing away money.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 06:36 AM
I think you're almost never good on the river given this bet size. At 1/2 I've seen a lot of guys check/check monsters like this and then bet big on the river so it looks like they're stealing--usually at 1/2 they aren't.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 07:18 AM
It's hard to provide obective advice about a well rounded strategy for this kind of spot without knowing what the effective stack sizes are, hero's image or what we perceive to be villain's preflop calling range (I don't know what you regard to be a standard player do you mean she seems to be a tight straight forward player?).

Whether you start the hand with $100 or $600 can make a difference to how you decide to play this kind of hand.

With $300 stacks or more, IMHO all of the following lines have merit:

Bet flop, check/fold turn
Check flop, bet turn, check/fold river
Bet flop, bet turn (with a draw to the second nuts), check/fold river
Check flop, check turn, check/fold river

The only line I really hate is a 3 barrel bluff.

Whether I check or bet is going to depend a lot on game flow.

Sorry if that sounds too general but I do think its worth mixing things up in this spot and frankly I'm more interested in spots where there is a chance of getting stacks in for 150bb or more.

Last edited by Nogyong; 02-21-2018 at 07:26 AM.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 08:20 AM
Assuming 100 bbs effective, I'd check flop with 3rd pair. While the flop hits your pfr range hard, the presence of a jack can make the opponent sticky.

With that runout, I'd check all the way, folding river. V could be thin valuing an 8X, however we block 98. Could be bluffing with that sizing, still I'd let it go.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
It's hard to provide obective advice about a well rounded strategy for this kind of spot without knowing what the effective stack sizes are, hero's image or what we perceive to be villain's preflop calling range (I don't know what you regard to be a standard player do you mean she seems to be a tight straight forward player?).

Whether you start the hand with $100 or $600 can make a difference to how you decide to play this kind of hand.

With $300 stacks or more, IMHO all of the following lines have merit:

Bet flop, check/fold turn
Check flop, bet turn, check/fold river
Bet flop, bet turn (with a draw to the second nuts), check/fold river
Check flop, check turn, check/fold river

The only line I really hate is a 3 barrel bluff.

Whether I check or bet is going to depend a lot on game flow.

Sorry if that sounds too general but I do think its worth mixing things up in this spot and frankly I'm more interested in spots where there is a chance of getting stacks in for 150bb or more.
Man I completely disagree. If I bet flop here I am never ever check/folding turn unless the turn pairs the J. It's easy for villain to have flopped an OK hand here (ace no kicker, jack, nut gutshots) but hard for her to have flopped strong, really just 88, AJs, A8s, maybe JJ. I think a single cbet then giving up is burning money, villain is going to be taking one off a LOT here.

We have a range advantage on this board, which means in general we should be looking to play our range aggressively. However, hands like KQ, KT etc etc are better hands to cbet here because they have a couple more outs if beaten and can make the nuts. You don't have a lot of check folds on this board so I'm fine to play 99 that way OTF.

I think your line was fine. The river makes me go hmmmm. I'm close to a call and might pull the trigger if I were suspicious of the player. The pot size bet kind of claims to have a good hand, but that's unlikely in view of the check-behind on a wet board OTT. Maybe she legit made her hand OTR, like has 22 or A2s. At the same time, most LLSNL players don't bluff in this spot, so it's just an unlikely bet either way. Generally fold, because LLSNL, and just call if you feel like this player is the type to get out of line.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 08:57 AM
Fold river if it's a good player, it looks like an exploiting bet. I guess a good player will never do that kind of bet in bluff (versus another good player) because she knows it means nothing and will get get call by any PP.

If it's a bad player, it really looks like a "uuhh I think he has nothing, lets do a huge bet to steal that ****".
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 09:14 AM
Fold the river.

Always (Not always but most of the time) bet the flop. If he calls then you can shutdown but checking this way only gives you one way to win. And that one way is essentially worthless.

You are playing 1/2 HEADS UP!You have a pair heads up. It's hard to make a pair. BET. His range is much wider than you think. By raising 99 and then checking because eww scary over cards you turn 99 into an unprofitable hand from any position.

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Last edited by RickyBobby198; 02-21-2018 at 09:29 AM.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-21-2018 , 11:03 AM
Don't agree with Chrisv. Players fear the ace. C betting this flop if you get called, you'll be getting called again on the turn more than you'd think.


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What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Man I completely disagree. If I bet flop here I am never ever check/folding turn unless the turn pairs the J. It's easy for villain to have flopped an OK hand here (ace no kicker, jack, nut gutshots) but hard for her to have flopped strong, really just 88, AJs, A8s, maybe JJ. I think a single cbet then giving up is burning money, villain is going to be taking one off a LOT here.
After we bet flop you want to check/call once with 99, in this spot:

Turn: A8JQ (Pot $73)

OK, good luck. I personally think it's a little spewy (when we check, villain is sometimes semi-bluffing the turn with the best hand e.g. JT, KQ, QT, KJ, TT) and I find it hard to understand why you're so adamant about never check/folding turn. I guess you're putting her on 8x, 22-77 and random floats without a J, Q or A. Sounds optimistic to me.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 08:50 AM
Nonono, I generally want to bet again. Looking at this again though, that's kind of a bad turn and c/f is probably best.
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02-22-2018 , 03:31 PM
I am with Chris...deffo bet this flop with range advantage HU and maybe even the turn again, depending on V, game dynamics, table reads. Sometimes you have to fire multiple shells to bring your children home.

AP I don't see how you can call as your hand is a bluff catcher. When we bet the flop and turn, it isn't necessarily for value, but at least we show initiative. When you check all three streets, calling the river cant be good.

Anyone like a check/shove on the river? Could be sexy...
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 03:36 PM
To the people advocating a bet here with 99, what is your range for checking? Seems to me that a better strategy in these spots is to have a wider check range even including an ace every once in awhile.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 04:47 PM
Post is obviously fake, there are no dealers that are good players
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millnoc
To the people advocating a bet here with 99, what is your range for checking? Seems to me that a better strategy in these spots is to have a wider check range even including an ace every once in awhile.
I think c/f is a bit better but don't hate betting 99.

You shouldn't construct your ranges passively like you're suggesting when you have a range advantage. You're passing up the opportunity to push your edge. There's a brief article on range advantage here.

My check-calling range on this flop consists of KJ, QJ, JT and maybe KK and QQ.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-22-2018 , 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Post is obviously fake, there are no dealers that are good players
Lol, exactly what I was thinking.

I’d fold. People thinly value bet often with his line but are usually bluffing sooner in the hand had they wanted to. If you have a history of V stabbing rivers in checked down pots you can look him up sometimes, although you still have combos of Qx/Jx to do it with which are better.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-23-2018 , 06:14 PM
That’s like an hour worth of tips. Fold.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-23-2018 , 06:50 PM
You fold 77 and 99, and TT on this board. I think C-betting the flop is situation dependent. Heads up helps, but with the Ace you're just hoping to take down the pot on the flop.

Last edited by paulhamr; 02-23-2018 at 06:58 PM. Reason: TT isn't a straight. T9 is the straight which you have two blockers.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-23-2018 , 08:53 PM
Heads up, I'm cbetting this flop fairly often. Image is going to matter. In my regular game, the players know that I'll check a turn with TP on a dry board, so my check here doesn't tell them much other than I most likely don't have a monster.

As played, I'd just let it go. All we beat is 77 or worse. We don't even have a decent bluff catcher.
What to do in spots like these? Quote
02-24-2018 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Nonono, I generally want to bet again. Looking at this again though, that's kind of a bad turn and c/f is probably best.
Betting flop and turn is defendable. Villain could easily have an Jx,8x/KQ and she has to worry we could have AA, QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ.
What to do in spots like these? Quote

      
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