Villan 1: mid 30s pretty woman. Tag abc rec player. Won like 80k on a popular Pokerstars show a while back. First time playing with her but ive heard she is tight and solid which is what i have seen so far. $900

Villan 2: white 50ish Lag. Played with him a lot. Tilts hard and not afraid of putting in chips. Great for the game. Stuck a little. 600$

Hero: white 30s. V1 prob sees me as solid but tilting a little. (I kinda was, in for 1500$...) V2 knows me and doesnt care about table image. Thinks im a moron like everyone else except him. I really love this guy I have about $800

2-5nl

Hero 20$ utg KKdh

V2 calls btn
V1 raises 80$ sb

Hero call(im putting her on jj qq aa or MAYBE ak but much more weighted toward qq and aa)

Obv V2 calls

9JQdd

V1 leads 140$...

Pot(240)

What do i do?

you can call 1 and see what she does on the turn. If she has AA she will not like it and you have 6 outs (7) with a back door flush draw.

folding is kinda weak but if you have a read she ether has AA or QQ than you are beat.

She could also just be 3betting garbage but highly unlikely vs an UTG raiser.

Raise preflop. You got greedy flatting IMO.

Sick flop. You don't beat much anymore, and if you really believe AQ is not in her range, I'd just fold. If you call or raise you are committing for stacks, is that what you want with 1 pair vs experienced TAG woman who shows strength OOP on high wet flop?

Against most players, as played, I'd raise/GII on flop, they'd have a set or aces sometimes but you have a gutshot and backdoor flush outs in those cases, and you're way ahead of AQ/KQ and ahead of TT.

Reasons for not four betting pre? Say something like 190? Would rather do that than feel lost on the flop.. If her 3! Range is premium pockets heavy are we not beat on this flop?

As played flat now and hope to bink or reeval turn.



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The opposite of this post please.

Calling $140 into $380 with ~$600 behind hoping to bink a 12% 0 implied odds hand is burning money faster than a sorority girl drops her skirt when drunk.

Also, can you give me the average limp/cold 4bet range from UTG? What do you think a solid winning player will do with JJ/QQ to that action?

Im pretty sure your choices are to puke and fold or dont puke and fold.

But hey, at least there isnt an Ace on the flop.

Or if we are feeling like tryin to move her off AA (which is normally a bad idea) we can make it like $325 otf and jam the turn to rep a set. But I'm pretty sure we are too shallow for that. Would be better if deeper.

4bet fold to $160 pre. if you flat pre and you flop an overpair on a low board, you will likely get stacked when she has AA. and if you try to make big hero folds post flop soul reading her for AA, you risk folding the best hand against QQ, JJ a lot. 4bet folding small gives us value from worse and lets us lose the minimum against AA

a $20 raise in 2/5nl is small enough to induce a 3-bet from JJ/QQ type hands. Whether I 4-bet or not will have to do with my image and if I think a 4-bet turns my hand face up as KK/AA.

She has a tournament player's history and these kind of players will play JJ/QQ like the nuts post flop as long as there is no A or K on the board. So most of the time we will get a favorable flop to extract nice value out of JJ/QQ. Obviously it sucks when we run into AA.

Personally, I think I flat here because I want to keep JJ/QQ hands in her range. I'd be more likely to 4-bet if my image was loose or I had a losing image.

As played, puke fold flop
\
Lastly, 4-bet/folding to her isn't terrible by any stretch

If we flat, V2 obviously flats and spr will be only 3.5. This means you basically are committed if she bets flop and turn and you call down. It's this exact reason why 4bet small/folding is such a great play. You lose the min to AA, you get some immediate value from worse since you 4bet tiny and she may stack off with a smaller overpair anyways. If you are confident she stacks off with JJ, QQ on low boards if you flat pre but not if you 4bet small, flatting pre is better

If you can say with a straight face that the villains know that TT or AK is in your small 4 bet range, then you can small 4 bet. That means you actually have to do it on a regular basis. Otherwise, you've told them you have AA or KK.

Flat the 3 bet and on this board, just puke fold. All you beat of their 3 bet range is AK and that's a small part of their range while you hold 2 kings.

Flat the 3 bet preflop....puke fold flop....sucks.

So overall do most agree that flatting PF makes sense as opposed to 4betting?

The other problem with 4betting is that you blast the fish out of the pot. Do you really want to isolate a good player with a strong 3bet range?

As played probably a fold. Even if her range is JJ+ and AK youre only beating JJ and AK (and you said yourself that AK was a much smaller part of her range). If she bluffed vnh.

JJ flopped a set, he's not beating that. He's only beating AK, and that should show hesitation on betting this flop.

Yea my mistake. Misread the OP that QQ was yhe only reasonable set. Which only reinforces my point.

4 bet pre. As played, this is a terrible flop. It's really weak but I might just fold flop.

So...

I flat pre, again, because i put her on qq or aa purely. I also want maniac in behind me.

9JQdd

Worst flop ever, except it was an easy lay down. She bets confidently enough to be leaning towards qq now and i muck after 15 seconds. Maniac calls. 7os. She leads 375 and maniac tank calls with 50$ bak?? 5os and a shove. He tanks again showing a J and calls claiming j5diamonds(bull****) No snap call on river with 2pair and a million to 1? Whatever. She has qq and scoops.

A friend at the table asks what i had and i quietly told him(shouldnt have there) and all of a sudden like a game of telephone the whole table knows i "claimed" kk. Then basically all of them call me a liar and say NO WAY can u fold kk on that flop. The only one who seemed to believe was the girl with QQ.

Yet most of u agreed about folding.

Point is the general public is still clueless about poker.

The question really is, is her 3 betting range polarized? If so, call and watcher her play the turn. If not then...If you put her on JJ, QQ, AA, your now beat on the flop! You are only beating AK. So its a fold. Also, I'd rather have seen a 4 bet preflop. Make for an easier decision when you see what she does after.