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Old 08-22-2018, 03:35 PM   #26
gobbledygeek
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Re: What to do with JJ

We have very different opinions of how novice players play poker if you think this is A9 a lot. The best argument for continuing is TT, but that's typically the weakest part of a novice's range here, imo.

GimeG
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:06 PM   #27
sauhund
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Re: What to do with JJ

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
We have very different opinions of how novice players play poker if you think this is A9 a lot. The best argument for continuing is TT, but that's typically the weakest part of a novice's range here, imo.

GimeG
who says itīs A9? could be a bored QT bc she won a big pot yesterday with it.

Imo there is a pretty big spazz factor with unknowns who donīt know what they are doing, and we make a mistake if we try to soulread them for a big pair to find a reason to fold.

itīs better to play our range and donīt care too much about their hand, imo.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:37 PM   #28
Lagavulin16
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Re: What to do with JJ

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I give EP raises quite a lot of respect, and perhaps even more for noobish players ...

GcluelessNLnoobG
Not to be argumentative here, but why would we expect noobish players to understand position enough to have a tighter range in EP?

Also for FWIW, IME Asian women under 50 bluff more than any group.

I would expect a noob to commit all of the noob sins they try to train you out of in beginner poker books. This includes: raising suited connectors, doing so in EP, and overvaluing top pair if you hit with them. Factor that into your ranging of her, and you can shove here all day.

You have to trust the noob read though. If you don't, I guess you have to fold and wait for a better spot.

Flatting pre is a sin if you're going to fold this flop to a big bet. Were we really just set-mining/hoping for a checked low flop at this stack size?
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:43 PM   #29
Tuma
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Re: What to do with JJ

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calling pre + only continuing with sets isn't great at this stack depth.
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Yeah, but we're not 100% setmining here. Sometimes we're looking to get an indication of whether we're good on the flop (noobs will often simply check UI AK here). Other times the noob's hand will see horrendous A high flop for their KK- and maybe we get a couple of free cards. Other times our flat will bring in a lot of other callers and we will be mostly end up ~setmining (which we're ok with getting better immediate odds and IO).

GcluelessNLnoobG
on this flop we aren't continuing with anything besides sets, and it's in tandem with calling pre i think is strategically inferior at 80bb eff.

Last edited by Tuma; 08-22-2018 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:52 PM   #30
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Re: What to do with JJ

fwiw i call flop 100% and almost always 3bet pre
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Old 08-22-2018, 05:07 PM   #31
gobbledygeek
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Re: What to do with JJ

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Originally Posted by sauhund View Post
who says itīs A9? could be a bored QT bc she won a big pot yesterday with it.

Imo there is a pretty big spazz factor with unknowns who donīt know what they are doing, and we make a mistake if we try to soulread them for a big pair to find a reason to fold.

itīs better to play our range and donīt care too much about their hand, imo.
As I say, if this is the characteristics you're applying to a noobish player (and similar to someone else's take above that Asian women under 50 are like the bluffiest of groups), then we have totally different experiences.

This is simply a straightforward entitled overpair that is super happy not to see an overcard the vast majority of the time, and I'd need to see some showdown HHs to begin to think otherwise.

Gime,imoG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 08-22-2018 at 05:21 PM.
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