Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL

01-01-2018 , 04:59 PM
H (MP2) Pocket 4s- Covers Entire Table
V1 (BB) ~ 500
V2 (CO)~ 1800

Action gets limped one way to H with 44, H raises to 20. Folds to V2 who calls, V1 and 2 other players call.

V1 is a passive player, and his bets/shows of strength are pretty transparent.

V2 is Moderately aggressive. Will raise good hands and consistently C bet barrells. Just won a pot off of him a hand or two ago when I called him with bottom pair no kicker after double barreling on a monotone board.

Flop comes 9 4 2

V1 donk leads 35
H Raises 130
V2 raises to 250
V1 tanks for > 1 min*

I've been watching V1 for a while and he was not hollywooding whatsover. He was genuinely concerned about what to do, but he sort of shrug goes All-In

What is my next action?

Spoiler:
After considering the action and what V1 had I sort of convinced myself that he had some sort of combo draw or weird two pair. His indecisiveness with such a short stack didn't read much strength. Because of that I didn't put him on any sort of strong hand. After he shoved I raised to 1K, and V2 shoved.

... I of course was thinking that V2 could possibly have 99, but considering the pre-flop action, my position, that the only hand that beats me is 99, and the type of player that V is, I figure V2 raises this with some frequency. The way the hand plays out it looks like I may have some sort of overplayed overpair, maybe a NFD, and he just wants to get it in with a set. The problem is I've got middle set not top set.

Last edited by Garick; 01-01-2018 at 05:26 PM. Reason: removed results
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 06:45 PM
Easy shove. You flopped a set & can't put someone on 99. If they have it then oh well. It's a snap shove - folding is not an option.

You'll probably see a lot of flush draws and two pair in this spot. 3x5x is unlikely but also possible.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 07:02 PM
People overplay hands all the time on low boards like this. Overpairs and flush draws are a huge part of their range and you have to consider that 99 is as likely as 22. Shove 100% of the time. If they have 99 you got cold decked but the play is correct and highly profitable long run.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 07:03 PM
Peuk and go all-in.

Given the action, I am genuinely worried that we could be shoving 360bb into V2 who could be sitting there with 99.

But he has 22 at least as often as he has 99 and there are a bunch of combo draws he can have like top pair + flush draw, 53, A3, A5.

I don't want to flat call and give V2 the option of drawing to a hand or letting him think he may still have fold equity.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
Peuk and go all-in.

Given the action, I am genuinely worried that we could be shoving 360bb into V2 who could be sitting there with 99.

But he has 22 at least as often as he has 99 and there are a bunch of combo draws he can have like top pair + flush draw, 53, A3, A5.

I don't want to flat call and give V2 the option of drawing to a hand or letting him think he may still have fold equity.
This is quite literally exactly what was going through my head at the time.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 08:11 PM
If I had 22, i'm willing to walk away from this if you are sold that V2 has a set. With 44, you just can't let it go unless the dude is the table Nit, and you painted him as anything but.

The problem with any other raise size than a shove is that you are committed anyway and give your opponents more equity. If V2 shows up with 99, that sucks, but given that he just barreled into you and you called weak, I can see you getting him in with far worse. The only bad part here is the stacks are so deep. If stacks are under 200bb, this is obviously auto-in.

If this board were rainbow, then I would flat and try to get the money in gradually, but i'm still aiming to get stacks in here.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 08:16 PM
The problem is that if V2 is good enough he's not really calling a shove for 1800 with 22. Who 5 bet shoves $1800 OTF with something that loses to 22? That is a big amount of $ in real dollars. It's also 360bb, which is a big # of blinds. We have to call.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Who 5 bet shoves $1800 OTF with something that loses to 22?
From V2's perspective?

The same kind of idiot who leads on a monotone flop, barrels on the turn then check/calls the river with bottom pair no kicker.

Even if we flat-call V1's 5-bet leaving 1250 in the pot and 1300 in effective stacks, the jig is already up. V2 knows we have a big hand. You want to give him the option of calling an extra 250 to see the turn?

What kinds of hands does V2 have (and how many combos) that you want to allow to stay in the pot by flat-calling?

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-01-2018 at 08:47 PM.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 09:09 PM
Shove- V1 isn't that strong- he most likely has a pair plus FD, or bottom set. I'd be more worried about V2, but if he's got 99 then oh well. GII.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote
01-01-2018 , 11:15 PM
Shove.

If V2 has 99, then pay that man his moneyz.
What to do on flop with middle set 2/5 NL Quote

      
m