Playing live at the Beau in Biloxi. Been at the table for about 3 hours, there are a few erratic players but most are staying tight.

I have 320$ behind and V has me covered

Villain is UTG +1, has played fairly tight, at two separate show downs has shown up with the nuts. Hasn't been caught bluffing and relatively wasn't involved in a lot of pots until recently.

I'm in the BB. I look down at AJ o/s

Four limpers back around to me. I make it 11, three people call.

Flop; (47$)
AA7 rainbow

I make it 25 (too small?)
V calls
Two others fold

Turn 4r (97$)
I make it 50$
V makes it 100$

Shove?

I felt that my AJ was easily strongest here due to the pre flop limp. I know I'm already invested, but due to his tight play do I give his boat credit and just fold?

I know my bet sizing here was relatively small so let me know what you think




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After 4 limpers raise more preflop if your going to raise. I'm not a big fan of raising with AX after a bunch of limpers because you generally have to raise something ridiculous to get FE and you have to lookout for villain who will limp/call with AK/AQ. If I decided to raise here something around $20 looks better but it's very table dependent.

Flop bet when you are super WA/WB is fine, you would like some middle pairs to stick around for at least one bet. Turn bet is a bit too big. You have cut the field down to one opponent and the board is still very dry. You want to nurse weaker hands along here so $50 or even checking is fine.

You not committed to the pot yet and bet twice after raising out of the blinds. Villain has to put some AX in your range and he is probably hoping you can't fold it. Tight villain limp/called preflop and called on this board? Lots of 77, some 44/AK/AQ. Some villains can be spazzing here with worse AX or bluffing but a tight careful opponent won't be often enough to call.

You don't want the pot going multiway OOP with a big card hand.

I'd raise much bigger preflop in an attempt to take it down there nd then as plan a. Pland b is to get it headsup vs a loose/bad player whose calling range is not dominating us and who is likely to make lots of mistskes postflop. I think you need to be going to $30 preflop.

As played you are crushing the flop and there are no draws out against you. Depending on your opponents you could get value from lots of weaker AX or disbelieving pocket pairs. You only really fear 77 A7 and a small number of weirdly played AQ+. Unless your opponents are very foldy and tight I see no advantage to going for a x/r on flop. Unless any opponents are aggro and bluffy I see no advantage to x/c flop. I would mostly bet flop around half pot, which you did.

When only the tight player calls flop I have another think about how he views me. Does he think I bluff this flop a lot then give up on turn? Has he seen me double barrel dry flop/turns with air? If he thinks I only bet when I have it or he only plays his own hand then I range V on AXs A7s 77 and maybe a few disbelieving pocket pairs. So V is on a narrow range where we beat around 7x AXs, who knows how many 7Xs 88 66-22, and lose to 3x 77, 1x A7 and a tiny number of 44/AQ+.

We can't get called by any of V's pocket pairs or 7X if we bet turn and we're around 7:5 ahead:behind vs his continue vs turn bet range. We don't know what V does with AXs, does he call or does he shove? V has no draws.

So we are in a WA/WB situation with poor reads OOP. I think I would check this turn and evaluate V's turn action. His check+bet ranges combined are obviously wider than his continue vs bet range and his bet range is probably wider than his continue vs bet. Therefore we can more happily x/c than bet. If it gets checked back we can bet river for value against his whole range by either going small or feigning a bluff depending on V's tendencies.

As played I don't know what to do vs the turn raise. My guess is V puts you on AX after you bet 75 into 97, thinks you never fold so he has to have strong AX+. I would fold but I don't like it much since there's a chance V thinks all his AX is good because "I has trip Aces, yay!"

Lol, looks like QuadJ and I were writing basically the same post at the same time.

Awesome breakdown. I really appreciate the input, considering I'm headed to hit the tables again today it's good to take a lot of this into consideration. I think my preflop betting has been relatively weak. I will try and kick it up a notch with strong holdings especially out of position and against several limpers. After a few more people post I'll post the results. Thanks again!


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I mean you don't have to attempt to isolate at all with non premium holdings. You can just check or limp behind and play a small pot multiway. Just if you do decide to isolate, whatever hand you do it with, go big enough to actually isolate.

You shouldnt be isolating anywhere near as much OOP as IP of course. Bear in mind when you isolate and get it headsup you'll both usually miss the flop and then be in IP makes it much easier to win the pot by cbetting /barreling.

GobbledyGeek is a good poster with strong opinions on the subject of isolating that I've found worth listening to. look up his threads. He'll probably turn up here in a moment and tell me off for stealing all his ideas

Standard raise size at 1/3 live is 4x + (x per limper). So with 4 limpers, you should be raising to 8x, which is $24. You don't want to play MW with AJo (this is a great hand for HU but a horrible hand for MW).

As played, I'd bet around 70% pot on all 3 streets, which will allow you to get stacks in by the river ($35 into $50 on flop, $80 into $120 on turn, shove $200 into $280 on river). People will get sticky with lower pockets that don't believe you and people will also get sticky with weaker Ax hands (I'd expect A3s to incorrectly tank call a river shove here because they can't fold trips at this level).

It's hard for your opponent to have AQ+ here, due to the fact that they limp-called preflop, and it's also hard for your opponent to have a boat here, due to a lack of combos (1 combo of A7s and 3 combos of 77). So for that reason, I'm going to be in a very value-oriented mindset here and look to get my stack in in a very aggressive way. If you run into a boat and end up value-towning yourself, then that's just a cooler. Don't think too much of it when there are so many combos you beat vs so little that beat you.

It's hard for me to analyse the turn when I would never have gotten to this spot like this in the first place. Since you only raised to $11 preflop, maybe the villain has A4o. It's much easier for the villain to have boats here because you raised so small preflop. That's why you need to iso raise bigger (follow the 4x + x_per_limper rule next time). But I'm probably still 3bet shoving the turn regardless because we should be committing our stack with this hand. He'll be raising trips every now and again, as well as the occasional bluff, so we're not always behind.

The plan for this flop is to bet roughly 1/3 pot all streets. I'd never bet 70% on all streets in a tight game.

I'm never ck this turn and very much disagree that tight V has more bets than calls ott, esp when hero looks like JJ+/AK to the guy. He might bet turn but will be less likely to bet <AJ otr if hero ck-c but will nearly always call, call 1/3 pot bets with his non FHs.

His continuing range ott is exactly 77, A2s+, ATo+, (I won't give him A2-9o) against which hero is flipping but AQ+ likely can be discounted slightly. In addition to capturing 3 steers with smaller bets, it leaves room for a possible bet-c ott when raised. When V makes it $100 it's more FH heavy than "see where my kickers at/ck riv" than had it gone 35/70. At these stacks, you st least have the option to call 35/70 better than 50/100 and can then ck-decide all rivs the times you run into the tippy top of his range.

Amanaplan:

I think your small bets over 3 streets can work here but I think it is higher risk:

We don't have a good enough read of V to know how he responds to a series of tiny bets. Maybe he thinks we have it when we bet flop and turn regardless of bet size so we're not actually improving our chances of getting through 3 streets of betting or getting any extra value. Maybe he thinks we're weak and thin-value/protection betting and raises us wider and we make more folding mistakes. Maybe we think he raises us wider and make more calling mistakes!

On the other hand checking the turn is definitely going to convince the vast majority of players that we don't have AX and guarantees us the option of only face 2 more bets after the flop while bet turn line always risks 3 bets to get to showdown.


I need to work out the potential difference in pot size between the two lines to see if the risk is worth it...

Stop and go: bet 25 into 47 on flop, turn goes x/x and we bet river 45 into 97 or turn goes x/c 45 into 97 but river goes x/x = 187 pot.

3 small bets: flop 16 into 47, 26 into 79 on turn, and 44 into 131 = 219 pot.

So your line generates a 32 bigger pot without putting in a bet any bigger than the stop and go line's river bet. It's a significant improvement on value so that has to be worth some extra risk.

Of course sometimes we can win a much bigger pot if we manage to sell a big river bet as a bluff after turn does go x/x though that risks not getting called where a smaller bet would have done. Also we can x/c a turn bet then lead river smallish for value and build a bigger pot that way though that risks facing a third bet if he raises river. Finally V might bet turn bigger than 45 for protection with a weaker hand than ours.

I think both lines have their merits and exact reads in the moment should guide us between the two. E.g. whether or not V limp/calls ATo utg+1 is pretty critical to the choice of line. E.g. V aggressiveness when checked to on turn is useful info.

Do you really never x turn here?

I'd have very few cks in wa/wb spots in this game - there's just too much value to be had and too much visibility to gain by betting against players who play their ranges so poorly. Pretty much comes down to painfully exploitable sizing choices that benefit whatever I'm trying to accomplish - they just won't adjust.

The min raise is very peculiar.

I have seen some Villains do it with sets to build the pot and other do it with draws to slow down action.

In this hand, it is particularly strange because you are only beat by AK, AQ, (both unlikely because of limp preflop) A7, A4, 77, and 44. However, turn raises are so rare and this board is so locked down....... I don't know if I would do it at the table when it happens, but I think this is a fold on the turn as played...... Am I crazy?

not really sure what the purpose of the 11 was other than to do a pot sweetener. No one is ever going to fold. but it is not a bad move. If you hit either one of your cards you are most likely going to have top pair good kicker or top pair top kicker, so no worries.

but if you want to actually thin the field, you need to make it 22.

just call the 50. and then call whatever he makes it on the river. hard to tell if you are actually behind, but I would not want to get it all in until we are nutted.

Just call. I cant imagine we're good here but every now and then you get supremely lucky and a donk will bet the river like $75 trying to milk us which we are happy to pay off with trips. If he jams I guess fold. I've seen players float with small pairs out of position like this namely because they "just dont believe us" on a flop like this and actually expect 44 to hold till the river.

We chose the worst option preflop (worse than folding), imo. I either (a) raise large in attempt to narrow the field or even just take down all the money now (which honestly isn't a bad result with this hand / position) or more likely just complete, see a cheap flop, and play nitty postflop (folding TP fairly easily to much action from the wrong people, sometimes as little as a bet). All we did here with this lol raise size is guarantee a multiway pot, OOP, with a hand that is unlikely to flop anything other than one pair, could still be dominated at tight tables, and create a small SPR that leaves us little wiggle room postflop.

And so here we are, an SPR of 6.5 OOP where it will be trivial to get in stacks postflop. Everyone can see the two Aces on board. The only worse hand that is going to pay off is a worse A. A better hand is never folding. Good luck figuring out which one we are before we commit stacks.

I would probably check the flop and go from there.

What do we think Villain has when he calls the flop with 2 others behind him? His minimum hand is Ax. Does he limp/call ATo? Cuz that is pretty much probably the *only* worse offsuit Ax hand a "lol tight" live player *might* have. Otherwise, the only hand we're beating is a weaker Axs.

When this Villain calls the flop, I'm checking the turn and praying it checks thru.

As played, I would fold. We raised preflop in the blinds, bet into the world, continued betting on the turn, and this tight non-bluffy always-shows-up-with-the-nuts guy just raised us. We're drawing to 3 (possibly 4) outs.

GcluelessNLnoobG