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Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn

07-28-2013 , 01:13 AM
Preflop descriptions:

Hero: Straightforward tight-aggressive player.

Villain: Straightforward tight-aggressive player, has started playing loose because of big winnings. Still a very good player, understands poker concepts and commands respect.

$1/2 NL home game

SB
BB Hero ($245)
UTG
UTG 1
MP
MP2
LP 1 Villain ($600)
LP 2
Button

Hero is dealt AK
3 players limp, LP 1 Villain raises to standard $7, LP 2 calls, Button and SB fold, Hero raises to $25, folds to LP 1 Villain, Villain calls, LP 2 folds.

Flop ($60): 69Q

Hero cbets $30, Villain calls.

Turn ($120): 5

Hero now has 2 overs and a flush draw. Is this a good time to fire another barrel? What does Hero do if he checks and Villain bets?
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 04:14 PM
I think your pre flop raise should be bigger with so many people in the pot. Then otf I think your cbet should be slightly bigger--$40ish.

Ott I'd fire a second barrel. You may get him to fold a queen and if he calls then you have outs otr
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 06:14 PM
Yeah barrel that turn. Very good card to barrel since you have alot of equity here against most of his range. He could fold TT JJ TJs and other random **** that peels flop.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 07:14 PM
So, stop just thinking about your cards and the board. Go back and start ranging your opponent from his raise onwards.

FWIW I doubt many very good players are raising $7 after 3 limpers in a home game (unless he could play well but is at this point just having fun and splashing around.)
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 07:34 PM
I feel PF sizing is a bit small, make it $30 (at least), then $35 OTF. The turn is an easy check IMO. If villain decides to also check OTT it's great because you get to see a free card and hopefully make your hand. If villain decides to bet OTT its an easy check raise, this makes your hand seem much stronger and will generally get a fold. If villain decides to call your check raise you still have outs to make your hand. But I could be totally crazy here as well.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 08:03 PM
I think putting second barrel in here is bad, especially now that we play relatively short stack (compared to the pot, not to the bb size). If villain has half brain, he is not calling flop with less than a TPGK after you 3 bet pre and fire flop. And he is folding zero of this range to your turn bet because he doesn't put you on a lot of flushes except of AKdd and maybe AQdd. The fact you don't have Ad in your hand obviously makes things worse.
I am checking this turn hoping to get a free card, calling a small bet, folding to a big bet.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiebrains
If villain decides to bet OTT its an easy check raise
Depending on villain's bet size, doesn't this put the c/r as an AI?

If hero bets ott, and is raised, can he get away from it?
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 08:09 PM
Incredibly easy 2nd barrel. Bet/fold the turn


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Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
I think putting second barrel in here is bad, especially now that we play relatively short stack (compared to the pot, not to the bb size). If villain has half brain, he is not calling flop with less thanŕ a TPGK after you 3 bet pre and fire flop. And he is folding zero of this range to your turn bet because he doesn't put you on a lot of flushes except of AKdd and maybe AQdd. The fact you don't have Ad in your hand obviously makes things worse.
I am checking this turn hoping to get a free card, calling a small bet, folding to a big bet.
+1 ..
got called 3bet (with 2 limpers) & flop by a winning player with air (which is what u have on the turn) is kinda suicide for me
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-28-2013 , 11:01 PM
I think CRAI is bad. I don't mind checking or firing another barrel. If you have Aces, Kings or AQ, you're going to bet this turn every time. There are a lot of hands that he would call a flop bet and fold to a 2nd barrel (especially if he doesn't have a big diamond). What hand are you trying to rep with a check raise?

We have to continue trying to range the V. Because your 3-bet was so small, I think his range is pretty wide here. He had to call 18 more to win 46 (minus rake) and he has position on you. He might call this 3 bet with his entire range. You said that he is playing much looser because of big winnings. A $7 open at most 1/2 I play generally means small/mid pairs, suited connectors, or suited aces. Just trying to build the pot unless you flop jackpot. I think 7-8 is in his range. I also think suited diamonds are in his range.

He called your 3bet and then called the flop bet. He could definitely have a Q, but he could also have had the diamond flush draw or the open ender w/ 7,8. The 5 of diamonds hit both of these draws. If he has the nut flush, you're drawing dead. If he has any flush, he's never folding and you would have 7 outs at best (minus any straight flush outs for him). If he has the straight, he's probably never folding. I'm not positive he folds a Q if you CRAI, especially if it's the Q of diamonds.

I think the hands that a CRAI would get to fold are hands that would check back the turn anyways. There is merit to firing a 2nd barrel. There is merit to checking and evaluating what he does on the turn. I will leave it up to the better players to determine which is best, but I don't think a CRAI is ideal.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-29-2013 , 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys. What would his flop calling range be here based on my description?
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-29-2013 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxing
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys. What would his flop calling range be here based on my description?
OK I don't want to be a pain but this is completely backwards.

The description has to come from the ranges he plays, not the other way round. If you don't know what his preflop and flop ranges might be (Like this is always guesswork but is the core of your whole game) then the description you give becomes meaningless.

Seriously do the hard work, range him for every step. People will comment and say well a good TAG/straightforward ABC/stationy fish is never doing that with X or Y hand here and you then go away and think if your idea of the player is wrong, your range is wrong or all the idiots here are wrong.

But you must start with some basic groundwork. For example I seriously can't think any good reason (or at least one that is not far outweighed by other factors) to raise to 7 after 3 limpers. Nobody here can do magic for you, you were the one there watching him play.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote
07-29-2013 , 05:29 PM
I have no problem with sizing really...personally would 3 bet $30 pre but no big deal. Important detail missing is how villain perceives u...as u stated as a tight aggressive so he's polarized ur range as JJ+, AK. His range is pretty open pre flop to 77-QQ, mid to high suited connectors, suited one gappers, AJ+. By betting around $90 on turn...I think he'll remove AK from ur perceived holdings and he'll be forced to only move forward with a stong hand. If he raises all in to ur turn bet then u can make the correct fold leaving u with half ur stack. If calls...then checking river regardless and re-evaluating if he bets depending on the card that falls. Checking turn and betting river is the worst option...screams bluff to any somewhat competent player and you'll get called down by bottom pair to any non-scare card. Check calling is also bad because most likely his bet sizing on turn won't give u proper odds to call...not sure if an A or K is good but still will need at least 3 to 1 on ur money to make the call...wouldn't suggest check raising and blindly stacking off without a read either.
Weird spot with unpaired AK on turn Quote

      
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