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Old 10-11-2017, 02:40 AM   #1
Badreg2017
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Weird spot with 88 preflop.

3/5 $200 max first buy in.

Hero has 200 and the rest cover.

UTG, UTG1 and UTG2 limp, i limp 88 in the LJ. HJ limps and CO raises to 15. BB and the limpers call.

Any merit to shipping it? I mean maybe every now and then the CO does this sizing with a big hand but I'd have to imagine the vast majority of the time he's using a bigger sizing with JJ+
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:54 AM   #2
Garick
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

You rep nothing with an overlimp as 4th in and then jamming, but you might well get money in as a flip. The thing is, you're actually getting a good price to set mine, which I imagine is extremely rare in this weird buy-in format.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:25 AM   #3
venice10
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Actually, OP is repping exactly what he has, a range of 88-TT.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:12 AM   #4
ROBUSTO8
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Ah, LA buy-in caps, pretty sure OP is playing at the Commerce we don't really have a choice about buy-ins here...

About the hand, I see what you're trying but, I think of these situations like this; at best you're gonna be a slight favorite in a coin flip, but there's also the chance of you being way behind a bigger pocket pair. Not worth the gamble for the small amount money in the pot. I think I'd wait for a better spot and just call here to look for a set.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:07 AM   #5
Eholeing
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Jamming or calling both fine, probably jamming
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:17 AM   #6
WehrmatsWormhat
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Just a call for me, unless you're really trying to get it in on a flip. You could wind up with 2 callers though, which is sort of a disaster. Just set mine here.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:46 AM   #7
the_dude_174
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Is everyone cool with over-limping 88 in LJ after 3 ep limps? 40bb eff?? This seems wrong to me as 88 is too strong here vs likely capped ranges. I imagine 99 and definitely TT played the same way would get flamed for not raising. Maybe 88 is the tipping point?

I guess l/c makes sense if 6-8bb pfr is getting called in multiple spots, but if that's the case then I think I want to move to wherever OP is playing. In my game, I go $35-$40 pre, fold to a 3! from behind or a l/rr. If i get it HU, I jam any flop that doesn't have two cards J or higher. If MW, meh...I guess we should have raised more or just over-limped.

OP, are big pf raises going MW?

AP the $15 raise is silly small so I guess we can call.

@Garick, can you show me the math that says we are getting odds to set mine? Not sure I understand this correctly.

@Eholeing, you would really jam after over-limping from MP vs this ~range? I doubt we have any real FE after the over-limp.

Equity Win Tie
MP3 46.34% 45.72% 0.62% { 8h8s }
CO 53.66% 53.03% 0.62% { 66+, A9s+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }


This game sounds super high variance but (depending on rake) we should be printing money by just playing very TAG pre and setting up trivial stack-off spots post.
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:37 PM   #8
the_dude_174
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dude_174 View Post

@Garick, can you show me the math that says we are getting odds to set mine? Not sure I understand this correctly.
Disregard, I got it.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:38 PM   #9
javi
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

A lot of live players dont adjust their preflop raising. They heard that raising 3x is the standard move so they do it regardless of how many players are in the pot already, so I wouldnt necessarily discount him as being weak unless you know he uses variable preflop sizing. I see some players make these weak preflop raises as a "pot juicer" with something like 67s because they want to create a bloated pot on the flop in case they hit. In that case I think jamming 88 with this stack is fine. But otherwise why not just raise it preflop yourself? I mean you look like you're trapping or something with the limp-raise so everyone is just going to fold worse or call with better. Speaking of which, whenever someone does limp-raise late like this I vastly open my 4bet range precisely because it makes no sense for you to have a real hand here.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:11 AM   #10
cicakman
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

I'd raise fairly big the first time. Now shoving.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:00 AM   #11
Eholeing
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dude_174 View Post
@Eholeing, you would really jam after over-limping from MP vs this ~range? I doubt we have any real FE after the over-limp.
With 16~bigs already in the middle and 40 bigs behind against capped ranges we don't need fold equity for this shove to be +ev, honestly it's a pretty dream spot
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:36 AM   #12
jc315
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

i've done no studies on 40bb cap games, but i suspect that being really aggro with hands like 66-TT preflop would be optimal, especially over limpers. overlimping with a 40bb stack is probably just a whatever EV play.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:11 AM   #13
gobbledygeek
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Getting 44+:1 preflop to setmine (i.e. overlimping the first time) isn't exactly horrible (in spite of the lol capped BI), no?

And in an odd way, it actually might be better than being much deeper, since most players will trivially commit these lol stacks sizes with mediocre holdings and yet be much more stingy working towards commitment with much larger stacks.

GcluelesssetminingnoobG
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:53 PM   #14
Nozsr
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eholeing View Post
With 16~bigs already in the middle and 40 bigs behind against capped ranges we don't need fold equity for this shove to be +ev, honestly it's a pretty dream spot
Our shove would turn "not quite dead money" into really dead money for everyone we fold out. And unless the hands behind us are 99+ we are still ahead at least 55-45 if we get one caller.

Just my personal choice, but yes 88, 99, and TT I am overshoving.

77 and lower I am mining.

Mostly because since I started doing this I am getting paid off by 66 and 77 every time, they have yet to bink against me. I don't want to be them.

JJ+ I am raising, not flatting, the limpers, every time.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:02 PM   #15
Chicagodude
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Re: Weird spot with 88 preflop.

no way, i call with 88 there or reraise, never ship there with 200--ah, i didn't see it was 3/5 when i saw 200 i think i forgot the limit, now i understand why you'd shove
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