Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-09-2021, 04:04 AM   #1
Handanonymous
stranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 9
Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Backstory player is a regular LAG style player I have a history with Ive trapped him a few times and let him blast off with bluffs. Anyhow were playing 3-5 uncapped game playing 7 handed.

My stack is $1,400 to start the hand villain has me covered.
Early position 2 limpers.
Me in the cutoff with QQ raise to $35.
Villain in the BB raises to $175.
One thing to note here is a bet sizing tell he had been 3 betting me on the smaller side all night to around $90-120.

I assume this has to do with him being stronger as his previous hands were marginal. My question is what's the optimal play here preflop should I reraise this deep and commit 1/3 + of my stack or just flat and play some flops in position?

I'll post the results in a few days thanks all!

I'll disclose what happened in a few days.
Handanonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 06:02 AM   #2
iraisetoomuch
banned
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 33,683
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Call and eval otf
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 06:16 AM   #3
venice10
Referee
 
venice10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 24,466
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Call and eval otf
Pretty much this. Not just set mining though.
venice10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 06:18 AM   #4
rickroll
oddly catty
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: serene, serene, puissant, puissant
Posts: 11,013
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

i wouldn't read too much into the bet sizing because of the two limpers it does make sense to open up more

it's an uncomfortable call for sure, but you absolutely can't fold here

if playing 300bb makes you feel uncomfortable ie scared of getting stacked that means you're playing too high and need to move down, you'll never do well with that mindset
rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 07:50 AM   #5
Petrucci
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,203
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

If he is 3 betting alot i am ready to 4 bet/stackoff here if it comes down to that.

Like, if we look at our overall range here and how we wants to play different parts of it in this spot i would want hands that play easier/better postflop as a flat and potenial call down hands. Like AKs,AQs or AA as a trap. Hand combos that flop better, and thus plays better as a flat.

QQ is gonna see enough bad boards and difficult runouts with overcards/flushes/straights while our hand is most often capped out at one pair, that i am leaning to want to play it fast preflop and pound on our preflop equity with a big pair.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 09:49 AM   #6
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4,813
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

It's hard to know if villain's sizing is meaningfully different without knowing any of the factors in the other hands that influence 3-bet sizing. Villain's size choice here seems very standard for BB.

I don't think one is obviously better than the other. The hand seems clearly strong enough to 4-bet for value but we're deep enough that we don't want to play for stacks pre and villain's aggressive postflop tendencies lean me in favor of calling. He could blast off with a lot of pre-flop bluffs that will just fold to a 4-bet.
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 06:37 PM   #7
drowski
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 977
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Why is this a weird spot? We got 3bet. That seems totally normal.

I'm never folding and depending on player type Im 4betting to 400 a decent amount. If he shoves then we just fold.

If you know (like 100% actually know and have seen first hand) that he is wider than kk+ and is 3betting close to optimal amounts then its a 4bet for me about half the time. If it's an unknown then I am calling and playing poker.

Title should be totally standard spot deep with qq
drowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 07:47 PM   #8
rickroll
oddly catty
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: serene, serene, puissant, puissant
Posts: 11,013
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

That's why I said he needs to move down in stakes. 300bb isn't very much. It should flow off you like water and shouldn't impact your play.

OP when I was playing I often sat in games I was not rolled for and it was terrifying. In fact it was exactly a QQ bang where I got 3! pre that caused same reaction of "omfg did I really get coolered?" All I could think of was how much I was going to lose, how unlucky I was and how happy I was too check it down and beat his J7 or whatever nonsense he had for a pot half as large as it could have been if I weren't so afraid. That QQ was a wakeup call to me and I vowed to not play that high again if I were to act like that and just worry "but what is he has aces?"

I wasn't not going to play because I had access to other people's money to bridge myself if it went poorly and the games were incredibly juicy.

My solution was to not play until I had either some weed or valium in my system, preferably valium, because that's the only way I could play indifferently despite often having my life roll sitting on the felt in front of me.

It was stupid for me to do that, I don't think you're doing that. But you're clearly impacted by having 300bb to lose at these stakes and you absolutely need to either drop down in stakes or train yourself to not gaf if you get coolered.
rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 07:48 PM   #9
rickroll
oddly catty
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: serene, serene, puissant, puissant
Posts: 11,013
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 09:36 PM   #10
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: twitch.tv/pokershaman59
Posts: 10,764
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
I don't think one is obviously better than the other. The hand seems clearly strong enough to 4-bet for value but we're deep enough that we don't want to play for stacks pre and villain's aggressive postflop tendencies lean me in favor of calling. He could blast off with a lot of pre-flop bluffs that will just fold to a 4-bet.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

The real danger with big pairs with big SPRs is the wide range of implied-odds hands that can see a flop or continue to a flop bet and score big when they get there. Making the pot bigger pre makes the hand easier to play post.

That said, there is an argument for keeping the pot small: we have absolute position, and big SPRs amplify the power of position. We may want to flat the three-bet with our entire range so as to be able to play in position with a range that the villain may not realize is actually uncapped.

But fearing to get it in pre with a 280 bb stack is crazy talk.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 09:54 PM   #11
drowski
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 977
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

The real danger with big pairs with big SPRs is the wide range of implied-odds hands that can see a flop or continue to a flop bet and score big when they get there. Making the pot bigger pre makes the hand easier to play post.

That said, there is an argument for keeping the pot small: we have absolute position, and big SPRs amplify the power of position. We may want to flat the three-bet with our entire range so as to be able to play in position with a range that the villain may not realize is actually uncapped.

But fearing to get it in pre with a 280 bb stack is crazy talk.
Wtf are you talking about? Flat our entire range in one sentence and then don't worry about getting 300bb in pre in the next sentence. Stop spewing meat head ego nonsense.
drowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 10:30 PM   #12
rickroll
oddly catty
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: serene, serene, puissant, puissant
Posts: 11,013
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by drowski View Post
Stop spewing meat head ego nonsense.
hard lol, alan is one of most chill and zenlike posters on all of 2p2

terrible read
rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 10:36 PM   #13
squid face
ChatThreadPrez
 
squid face's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cloudbase! Aint no time 4 gravity
Posts: 9,983
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
hard lol, alan is one of most chill and zenlike posters on all of 2p2

terrible read
He's definitely calmer than you, dude
squid face is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 10:45 PM   #14
rickroll
oddly catty
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: serene, serene, puissant, puissant
Posts: 11,013
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
He's definitely calmer than you, dude
rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 11:17 PM   #15
hitchens97
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,759
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
Phil Ivey's expression on that hand is priceless.
hitchens97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 10:33 AM   #16
colt45ss
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 911
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

no tell on the deep breath breast heaves at all.
MUB on steriods
colt45ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 11:21 AM   #17
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: twitch.tv/pokershaman59
Posts: 10,764
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
hard lol, alan is one of most chill and zenlike posters on all of 2p2
Speaking of hard LOLs....
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 02:25 PM   #18
sweetzer
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 272
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

I agree with Drowski and favor a 4B in position for the following reasons:
1. The LAG is in the BB and there are two early limpers; he wants to play HU.
2. If you call his 3B, there will be $360 in the pot and he will likely CBet to $230 or so, which means you will have invested 140+230 or $370 to play the flop with him still uncapped.
3. If you 4Bet to 2.5x or $430 you have a lot of fold equity that you don't have if just calling for investing only $60 more, and you know much more about his hand. Fold to a 5 bet.
sweetzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 11:28 PM   #19
discgolfing
journeyman
 
discgolfing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 366
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

I hate to say it but yea this feels like an, "I really don't enjoy getting in $1400 with QQ pre," hand. It is correct to 4bet gii here, even though it feels bad cuz your profit is marginal and your variance is high.
discgolfing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 12:19 PM   #20
drowski
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 977
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by discgolfing View Post
I hate to say it but yea this feels like an, "I really don't enjoy getting in $1400 with QQ pre," hand. It is correct to 4bet gii here, even though it feels bad cuz your profit is marginal and your variance is high.
Thats an 8x 4bet...

There are literally (actual definition of the word) zero hands we should be 4bet jamming. It's not a tournament.

It turns the third strongest hand in poker into a bluff

Vs anyone but a total maniac it's never good to gii pre with qq for 280bb.
drowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 12:26 PM   #21
Petrucci
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,203
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by drowski View Post
Thats an 8x 4bet...



There are literally (actual definition of the word) zero hands we should be 4bet jamming. It's not a tournament.



It turns the third strongest hand in poker into a bluff



Vs anyone but a total maniac it's never good to gii pre with qq for 280bb.
I dont think he is advocating a 4 bet overjam. My impression is he wants to 4 bet for value,and stacking off if it comes down to that.

Sent fra min SM-G981B via Tapatalk
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 12:42 PM   #22
drowski
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 977
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
I dont think he is advocating a 4 bet overjam. My impression is he wants to 4 bet for value,and stacking off if it comes down to that.

Sent fra min SM-G981B via Tapatalk
Ahh that makes more sense. I think it's a 4bet/fold spot but ok I can understand 4bet/call
drowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 04:18 PM   #23
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,087
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Quote:
Originally Posted by drowski View Post
Ahh that makes more sense. I think it's a 4bet/fold spot but ok I can understand 4bet/call

Yeah live poker it might be a 4 bet / fold. Online Id expect to have enough equity to unhappily call it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 04:44 PM   #24
hitchens97
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,759
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

I think it's close between a 4 bet/fold and calling the 3/bet, but I'm really not getting the 4bet/call a jam.

Perhaps you guys see lots of 5 bets with less than AA/KK this deep but I certainly can't remember one recently.
hitchens97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 08:27 PM   #25
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: twitch.tv/pokershaman59
Posts: 10,764
Re: Weird spot 300 BB deep with pocket QQ's

Among other things, stacks are deep enough that a well-sized 5-bet is not going to be a jam.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive