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Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell?

11-21-2014 , 04:32 AM
$1/$2 live. Villain is a solid player, has biggest stack at table. Capable of making a bluff here.

Hero SB: Q♥️Q♣️ (197.5BB)
Villain Button: (255 BB)

UTG: Straddles
UTG+2: Calls 2 BB
Folded to villain on button: raises to 5.5BB.
Hero: in SB raises to 17.5BB.
Folded to villain: who calls for 12BB more.

Flop: (45 BB's)
10♦️7♦️6♥️
Hero: Bets 22.5BB
Villain: Raises to 50BB
Hero: Calls 27.5BB more

Turn: 145BB's
8♥️
Hero: Checks
Villain: Bets 50BB. Begins to say 'you should muck, wet board.'
I then asked if he'd show if I folded he said no.

Hero: has 130BB's left

Hero?

So my question is..is this a reverse tell trying to induce a call?
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote
11-21-2014 , 04:45 AM
Well first things first, what are you hoping to happen when you call his flop raise? Getting it in on the flop seems pretty bad.
So where does that leave us?
Before doing anything you need to be thinking what you will do when different turn cards come.
What do you do when a straight card comes? What do you do when the diamond comes? What do you do if a T comes? What do you do if a blank comes?

It seems to me like getting it in as an answer ott to all of these questions is pretty bad. Calling the turn and having to decide whether or not to hero a river seems pretty bad. So where does that leave us?
Seems kind of weak but folding to an almost min-raise isn't the worst here. That said I don't know if I could fold flop if I ever think V checks behind the turn some amount of the time.

Unless I have specific reads on Villain Im folding turn. Who cares what he's saying...
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote
11-21-2014 , 08:12 AM
Without any reads on the villain other than he/she is "solid," it is impossible to give any useful advice. A sixty year old winning rec player might tell this as friendly advice to a 21 year old newbie looking player. A 25 year old internet refugee in full hoodie attire could be reverse telling to an older live player.
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote
11-21-2014 , 09:40 AM
Yeah, tells are dependent on the player just like bets, calls, and raises. The same language can mean two different things from two different people.

Just based on the action, I'd fold here. QQ is basically a bluff catcher. I don't see any value to risking 130BBs with 4 to a straight on board and without a good read on villain. We don't even beat two pair at this point. I'd put a target on V's back and watch his every move. He could be a good source of chips in the future. You'll have position on him most of the time. Fold and wait for a better spot.
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote
11-21-2014 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogias
$1/$2 live. Villain is a solid player, has biggest stack at table. Capable of making a bluff here.

Hero SB: Q♥️Q♣️ (197.5BB)
Villain Button: (255 BB)

UTG: Straddles
UTG+2: Calls 2 BB
Folded to villain on button: raises to 5.5BB.
Hero: in SB raises to 17.5BB.
Folded to villain: who calls for 12BB more.

Flop: (45 BB's)
10♦️7♦️6♥️
Hero: Bets 22.5BB
Villain: Raises to 50BB
Hero: Calls 27.5BB more

Turn: 145BB's
8♥️
Hero: Checks
Villain: Bets 50BB. Begins to say 'you should muck, wet board.'
I then asked if he'd show if I folded he said no.

Hero: has 130BB's left

Hero?

So my question is..is this a reverse tell trying to induce a call?
you cbet on the flop looks extremely weak, half pot? You look like someone who has AKo and now feels like they need to bet the flop. His raising could be anything with such a weak lead. What does this villain raise with from the button, is his range extremely wide? A straddled pot raised to $11 is extremely small, is this standard at the table? Because your reraise from the SB was small as well we can't really narrow his range with the call either. so far we've seen him open small from the BTN, call a small raise with position on you, and then you led weak on the flop and he clicks it back. I guess this smells like it could be a big hand, and the way you played it gives you absolutely no information on his range.

He could have raised BTN and raised the flop with hands like:

T9, T8, J9dd, 9Xdd, 8Xdd, QQ, JJ, 99, 88... you see my point? It's almost impossible to narrow his range. Now a gutshot comes in on the turn and he bets super small again, is he trying to string you along and slowly get stacks in or is this a blocking bet with JJ and he's just hoping for a cheap showdown?

A bigger raise preflop and a bigger cbet would help us narrow his range down, but as played I guess you just go with live tells and decide if you're shipping or not. He'll probably snap fold or snap call here.
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote
11-21-2014 , 11:15 AM
regardless of what he's saying, I think the cbet was bad. It was way too small and opened the door for this guy to do whatever he wanted.

As far as the tell is concerned, it depends on his personality and demeanor. If he's a nice guy trying to be friendly then I tend to believe him. If he's an angle shooting scum bag I don't.
Villain says 'you should muck'..reverse tell? Quote

      
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