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villain jams with dreaded overcard

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10-08-2014 , 08:45 PM

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

game: 2/4 100-300 BI
hero ($400) is LAG soul crusher wearing $500 beats by DRE (if you want full experience of the hand i was listening to this song, play it in background if u want full experience of this hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y_hq3lTj8o)
villain ($350) angry old man, LAG reg

2 donkey stations limp, hero in CO with sum black Kings, bump it up to 28, villain flats from BB, donkey stations flat

flop comes A

checks to hero, what do?

Spoiler:

Last edited by Jyzz; 10-08-2014 at 08:53 PM.

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10-08-2014 , 08:49 PM

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Obvious flop check is obvious.

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10-08-2014 , 08:56 PM

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzah_ball

Obvious flop check is obvious.

my thinking was that the donkey stations aren't limp calling many aces, so thought i'd take the betting lead and charge draws to better hands
but yeah checking this spot is probably better

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10-08-2014 , 09:05 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyzz

my thinking was that the donkey stations aren't limp calling many aces

WHHHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTT!!#??!?!?!?!? 11111

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10-08-2014 , 09:13 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

4 handed? Without some good reads check flop and see what happens on turn. Pot is already $114 on flop, a c-bet is risking too much money.

As played, fold to the shove. Villain will show a draw or something you beat some of the time, but against a range of AX, two pair, sets and flush draws you have to include a lot of flush draws and total air bluffs before your getting odds to call. You have to push his range a big towards value hands since he probably isn't doing this with a weak AX with two stations behind him.

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10-08-2014 , 09:23 PM

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koss

WHHHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTT!!#??!?!?!?!? 11111

before your autism intensifies even more over my bad play
these donkey stations weren't limp calling many aces there

i'd probably check back this spot in the future
but is it really that much of a bad spot to c-bet?
given that most of the time 3 opponents don't have an ace here
and there's a good chance their hands could suck out on the turn for a flush or 2pair (i'd say >20% chance)

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10-08-2014 , 09:24 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValueBluff

Fold pre.

Whose more trollish. The troll or the troll who trolls him.

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10-08-2014 , 09:24 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

No trolling strategy threads, Value Bluff. Even if you think OP.is trolling.

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10-08-2014 , 09:31 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

I prob c/f this multi way. Lots of donks l/c weak aces and then get married to them. C-bet isn't horrible, but folding to the raise is ldo here..

OP, if you want better replies, please stop with the attitude intros to your posts. If you're just trolling what you see as bad strategy OPs in other threads, stop. Trolling strat is not allowed in LLSNL.

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10-08-2014 , 09:33 PM

#10

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,486

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyzz

before your autism intensifies even more over my bad play
these donkey stations weren't limp calling many aces there

i'd probably check back this spot in the future
but is it really that much of a bad spot to c-bet?
given that most of the time 3 opponents don't have an ace here
and there's a good chance their hands could suck out on the turn for a flush or 2pair (i'd say >20% chance)

I'm fairly sure that's false.

If we construct a range of their likely limp/calling hands and count the % of hte time that all 3 of them don't have an ace I'm pretty sure it's <<50%.

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10-08-2014 , 09:34 PM

#11

WILLOC

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 84

Like the flop bet, fold to the shove.

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10-08-2014 , 10:06 PM

#12

Letmewin1

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 376

In lower limits 1/2-2/5 rec players will limp with Ax a big % of the time, since their game is passive fit/fold.
Going 4 way to the flop it's very likely that that flop hits their limp call range.
Flop action could go either way, you could check it back since you will not get more than a street of value maybe 2 from under pairs and Qx so checking this back and then betting turn if/when checked to will be superior.
If we decide to bet for value as thin as it might be, I think a smaller sizing is much better, maybe 40-50% as it would yield the same results.
AP
Folding is best.

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10-08-2014 , 10:48 PM

#13

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 24,927

OP sucks at poker IMO.

Ch flop 4 ways. As played trivial fold

I don't think you crush any souls bruh

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10-08-2014 , 11:28 PM

#14

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwslim69

OP sucks at poker IMO.

Ch flop 4 ways. As played trivial fold

I don't think you crush any souls bruh

i'm offended, soul crushers are human too and can make mistakes
its arrogant people like you who stop people from posting mistake hands for re-evaluation

you guys sure its a trivial fold?

villain is decent reg and isn't jamming AJ or less here, and many value hands on this flop either 3bet or fold pre
his range is pretty much AQ, 66, or FD here

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10-09-2014 , 12:15 AM

#15

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Kh is not an out BTW.

So, yeah... 1 out.

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10-09-2014 , 08:01 AM

#16

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

anyway given he could have quite a few FD hands and very few value hands I hero call
villain tables AQ and my soul is crushed

turn J

river T

I decided to get some tilt EV so I table my kings and say
"that's how you play poker boys"
"NH" villain calls it a night

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10-09-2014 , 03:18 PM

#17

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 24,927

You are insane if you think he has bare heart draws as often as he has value hands. Just doesn't happen on an A hi board at LLSNL.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

20,790 trials (Exhaustive)

board: A

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
KhKs	13.99%	2,909	0
AQ, 66, A6	86.01%	17,881	0

If he has hearts as often as he has the others (highly doubtful given an A hi board)

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

65,340 trials (Exhaustive)

board: A

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
KhKs	49.00%	32,016	0
AQ, hh, 66, A6	51.00%	33,324	0

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10-09-2014 , 04:58 PM

#18

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

It's actually worse than the above, as H has KsKc, no heart blocker, no NF redraw.

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10-09-2014 , 05:56 PM

#19

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 24,927

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

It's actually worse than the above, as H has KsKc, no heart blocker, no NF redraw.

Oops thought I had fixed but you are correct

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10-09-2014 , 06:51 PM

#20

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

And, of course, it assumes that V called pre with any two hh. With even the very wide suited range below, it's worse yet.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

36,630 games 0.000 secs 7,326,000 games/sec

Board: Ah Qh 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.831% 30.79% 00.04% 11280 13.50 { KcKs }
Hand 1: 69.169% 69.13% 00.04% 25323 13.50 { 66, AQs, A6s, KhJh, KhTh, Kh9h, JhTh, Jh9h, Jh8h, Th9h, Th8h, 9h8h, 9h7h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, 6h5h, 5h4h, 4h3h, AQo, A6o }

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10-09-2014 , 08:24 PM

#21

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

No trolling strategy threads, Value Bluff. Even if you think OP.is trolling.

I thought he was just advising the GTO line.

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10-10-2014 , 12:43 AM

#22

Jyzz

banned

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 111

i'm not arguing anything lol, I posted this because this hand sticks out as one of the worst hands i ever played in LLSNL

got in a sticky situation by c-betting
decent reg calls 7x from the BB his range is leaning more towards top 2 and sets here as opposed to 6h hands so probably wasn't getting the >33% equity to call it off, anyway thanks for running the ranges

i guess soul crushers can make mistakes too huh

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10-10-2014 , 10:49 AM

#23

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyzz

i'm not arguing anything lol, I posted this because this hand sticks out as one of the worst hands i ever played in LLSNL

Given the HH that you've posted so far, I'm not sure how I'd choose.

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10-17-2014 , 02:22 AM

#24

Matt0

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 51

OP please tell me you are who I think haha

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10-17-2014 , 10:39 AM

#25

ThaNEWPr0fess0r

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,830

Yeah, as others have pointed out, don't cbet here into 3 opponents. I would think that their ranges all contain a decent amount of Ax and even against a range of strong made hands, some Ax, and flush draws we have to fold.

I listened to the song... It was much better than I was expecting, although you should really listen to some Feed Me, or some Mord Fustang, or some PrototypeRaptor, or some Savant or something... I've got plenty of suggestions.

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