Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it?

10-25-2012 , 02:21 PM
Playing 1-3 against someone ive played quite a bit with he can be described as pretty tight pre flop but postflop not very good, a station (will nearly never let go of tptk or overpairs) and complete hero at times. I have value bet very thin in the past correctly, and i know him personally and happen to know he is in the middle of re-building his roll also i have not played him in a few months he knows im capable of anything.
Been playing 2 hours 1-3 nlhe when this hand takes place...

villain opens 15 from hj with stack of 500

hero raises to 45 with K 9 with stack of 1k folds around villain calls. I dont have hold em manager live so cant give percentages but this is someone who folds Alot to 3 bets, and i had been pretty quite since arriving.

pot 97 flop comes 234

villain leads for 65 hero calls

pot 227 turn K

villain checks hero bets 135 villain calls after about 30 secs

pot 497 river 8

villain checks hero?

his hand to me looks like 99-1010-jj-qq a-k a-q i know for a fact he does not have 22-33-44, also he would not slow play aa-kk out of position.
My instinct was to say all in but theres alot of money in there could check back and hope to be good dont want to own myself, could bet call off, bet-fold urrgh not possible any bet would leave me getting like 5-1, 6-1 on calling off. or jus move in. This is someone that i know for a fact is capable of calling down fairly light, also knowing he is in the middle of rebuilding his roll would he be calling down like he used to. Help please! river and whole hand as played
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:34 PM
i don't like that you're in the hand, but you should be bet folding now.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:41 PM
I'd shove with an aggro image tbh
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:44 PM
I don't mind the 3bet preflop, especially if this guy is opening a lot when folded to him. The only thing that concerns me a bit is that stacks are deep, which means that it is far less likely (imo) that he is going to fold preflop since he'll know he has a lotta play postflop. But I'm still cool with it.

Even though we're not getting awesome odds on the flop, I also call in position as he'll probably slow down on a lotta turns once we call.

I would typically check behind on this turn. We sure are building a hugenormous pot with TPmehK. Plus I don't want to be blown off my backup draw. I'm going for two streets of value with this hand and would be pretty happy about it, but it's possible that thinking is making me miss value.

We've only got a 1/2 PSB left. I still think we've made a mistake building a pot this big (we can't fold to a river shove ourselves, can we?). Anyhoo, I thank my lucky stars he didn't shove the river and check behind here. There's so few worse hands looking us up here, imo, for 167 BBs, especially with the K on board (which smashes a large part of our 3betting range).

GcluelessNLnoobG
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
i don't like that you're in the hand, but you should be bet folding now.
We have 1/2 PSB left. I think bet/folding is out of the question considering the only bet size would be a shove, no?
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
i don't like that you're in the hand, but you should be bet folding now.
Bet fold? 60%psb left
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 02:59 PM
meh wasn't paying attention. shove.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:14 PM
This if a really easy shove with given info. pre is whatever but given we're both really deep I like and do this occasionally. Hands played perfectly post assuming you jam.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I don't mind the 3bet preflop, especially if this guy is opening a lot when folded to him. The only thing that concerns me a bit is that stacks are deep, which means that it is far less likely (imo) that he is going to fold preflop since he'll know he has a lotta play postflop. But I'm still cool with it.

Even though we're not getting awesome odds on the flop, I also call in position as he'll probably slow down on a lotta turns once we call.

I would typically check behind on this turn. We sure are building a hugenormous pot with TPmehK. Plus I don't want to be blown off my backup draw. I'm going for two streets of value with this hand and would be pretty happy about it, but it's possible that thinking is making me miss value.

We've only got a 1/2 PSB left. I still think we've made a mistake building a pot this big (we can't fold to a river shove ourselves, can we?). Anyhoo, I thank my lucky stars he didn't shove the river and check behind here. There's so few worse hands looking us up here, imo, for 167 BBs, especially with the K on board (which smashes a large part of our 3betting range).

GcluelessNLnoobG
Meh, is V really checking turn and river with AA, AK after leading OTF all the time? I think we are ahead here a lot, I think his range tends more to middle pairs and aces that missed, and I want to shove for thin value. Plus OP says our villain loves to hero call.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:17 PM
well played - bet river for his stack. You definitely have room to value bet here, and you are not at all concerned about action back given his leftover small stack. I think his range is heavily weighted towards PP less than your K

BTW - I 3-bet in position preflop with this crap too. Not all the time, just select spots against opponents who can fold and when my image is right at the time.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:19 PM
side note: Think of all the crazy action you'll get when you turn over your K9s and scoop. A play like this can have far reaching effects into sessions not yet played.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
side note: Think of all the crazy action you'll get when you turn over your K9s and scoop. A play like this can have far reaching effects into sessions not yet played.
Yes - good point. It is not like stat tracking online - 1 or 2 of your plays dominate their memories in a live session. You can fold for the next 2 hours yet they remember you 3-bet K9
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-25-2012 , 03:36 PM
I'm not a big fan of the pf 3-bet, he'd have to be opening super-wide. If he were more fit or fold postflop, It gets better, but against a tight station you end up 2nd best a whole lot. As played, shove, the flop donk, turn check makes me think you're good way more than 50% of the time here.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-26-2012 , 10:44 AM
Genuine thanks for all the input, one of the things i wanted to hear feedback was my turn bet wasnt sure if like gobbleygeek said i should have taken the free card if shoved on my turn bet i would expect to be behind. As played i threw in some 100 chips setting him all in, he tanked for 3-4 mins and kept asking me if i called the flop with ak and then pretty upset folded jj face up i obviously showed the 9 and complained i never hit and said phew with a big to try and tilt him. So i was correct with the hands i thought he had but he didnt call.... so does that mean i would only be called by better than my hand or is the result irrelevant and because of his line i must always bet for value? Also i know the thought of betting 20% pot would make some of you cringe but what about a cheeky 100 bet on the river begging to be called? thanks for all input so far
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-26-2012 , 11:06 AM
I know you said he's capable of hero calling but this is such a big bet. He like never finds a call here. I agree he always has a weaker hand but why not bet like 150 or something?
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-26-2012 , 11:15 AM
depends on how big of a hero villain is, I think betting 100 has merit and shipping has merit and what the best bet is, is basically a math problem
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-27-2012 , 10:56 AM
Bottom line is if he calls the shove a decent % of the time and likes to hero that is the max line... People don't be results oriented, hero's shove is very good against said description.

If your vbets get called 80+% of the time in these spots, you aren't betting enough.
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote
10-27-2012 , 11:02 AM
pretty easy shove

he almost never has a better king (occasional AK is possible)
value shoving top pair no kicker? too thin? or go for it? Quote

      
m