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Old 05-19-2018, 05:20 PM   #1
djevans
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Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Hero $750~ - Stuck about $600 - lost a massive pot after being up $700 with a set vs a straight on a 589 board - basically got it in with a set vs an action player and he flopped the nuts. Didn't really expect him to call 76o to a $30 raise pre, but i'm not too unhappy with out it played out, as there was a lot of dead money in there- He only had about $900 but there was about $600 dead so a $2400 pot.

Took a break to get some food, came back and action play left but all the other players are still there.

Villain - $800 - he is a recreational player - he calls 3bets way too wide, and will 3bet silly spots like 77 and T9 which isn't terrible but he is doing it vs the wrong players imo and in bad positions like BB.

Villain UTG+2 goes $25
1 caller
I'm in BB and go $125 with AQ

Villain calls (looked like a frustrated call)
caller folds


$275
QT3
Hero leads $150
Villain calls

8
$575

Hero has $480 left
Seems vs his whole range it could be a shove - I wish I had the A though.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:41 PM   #2
8o8
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

what's he like post flop? how loose are his calls? with just your preflop description it's hard to construct ranges for him here. with the limited info we have, i'm expecting his flop calling range to be fairly wide. however the question is does he stack off with a worse queen here.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:58 PM   #3
mdelore
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Hideous turn card but giving him a free one is not good for us either. With less than a psb left and tptk in 3b pot I just go all in. If he binked turn good for him.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:02 PM   #4
HomelessPizza
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

oooof maron that board is terrible!

I think it's a c/c OTT.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:28 PM   #5
QuantumSurfer
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

That's a scare card not only for us but for any hand we're beating. Too much SDV to turn this into a bluff, which is what I'd consider a jam here. Our read only tells us V has no quarrels doling out aggression, not that he pieces off light when facing it himself. If we check & give him a chance to lead, we keep in all the hands we beat. We don't really loose any value when there's nothing to get value from, unless of course we know this guy will call off weaker, but you wouldn't really be asking if you knew.

FWIW, given that we 3b pf, have a nice range advantage, and the SPR is pretty small, I'd c-bet most of my range somewhere ~$75-100 here. 1/2 pot seems a bit large.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #6
djevans
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer View Post
That's a scare card not only for us but for any hand we're beating. Too much SDV to turn this into a bluff, which is what I'd consider a jam here. Our read only tells us V has no quarrels doling out aggression, not that he pieces off light when facing it himself. If we check & give him a chance to lead, we keep in all the hands we beat. We don't really loose any value when there's nothing to get value from, unless of course we know this guy will call off weaker, but you wouldn't really be asking if you knew.

FWIW, given that we 3b pf, have a nice range advantage, and the SPR is pretty small, I'd c-bet most of my range somewhere ~$75-100 here. 1/2 pot seems a bit large.
Seems pretty good - but my plan was to set up for a turn jam from the flop so Im not sure I agree with your $100 flop bet. This card though changes things though. I have also been running pretty bad for 2 months and consistently running into the top of peoples ranges which has clouded my judgement. Very hard to stay vigilant when your Aces and sets keep losing. My hand is pretty much as good as AA here as he never has KK or AA and I guess the only thing a shove does is stop a hand like AdTx or KdQx or KJx - which he may check back.

I was on the fence but ended up jamming which could of been a mistake - while not a very big one, I think I get called by better hands only.

If we check and he jams are you ever folding?
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:12 PM   #7
Bagliani
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

I got into similar hand like this yesterday, I 3bet from BB with AQ and got almost exact same flop and turn. I think this is a check call on the turn, maybe he shoves pocket jacks or 9s as villain did in my scenario. I don’t really like shoving into him because I can’t think of many worst hands that will call us maybe KQ with the king of diamonds but we block the queen so I don’t really like jamming here.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:18 PM   #8
venice10
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

The problem with a jam is that a fair portion of his calling range got there on the turn. He didn't call the flop bet to fold the turn when his draw hits. Any worse hand than yours is just going to give up and fold. Check. Long term, start checking when you do hit your draw in this situation, too.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:11 PM   #9
Joey913
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Admittedly this has become my biggest pet peeve in this forum. In a 3bet pot heads up we don't need to get so scared when a 3flush appears. Only in this forum do villains show up with the flush often. Totally different if we are multiway in a non3bet pot ,bet flop and get a caller.

We have less than a pot sized bet left and villains (including this one) will call with lots that we beat. If they don't, check your image/playing style as you are probably not aggressive enough.
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:47 AM   #10
Phil Me Up
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Is 3b pre really the best play here vs a 5x UTG? He doesn't fold to 3b & is a little spazzy -- OK. And? What's his RFI range look like iyo?

Anyway, AP, shove here w/ less than a PSB iyam. Nasty card for sure, but I still think enough worse calls us for it to be thinly +EV. Venice raises an interesting counter arguments as usual.
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:35 AM   #11
djevans
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up View Post
Is 3b pre really the best play here vs a 5x UTG? He doesn't fold to 3b & is a little spazzy -- OK. And? What's his RFI range look like iyo?

Anyway, AP, shove here w/ less than a PSB iyam. Nasty card for sure, but I still think enough worse calls us for it to be thinly +EV. Venice raises an interesting counter arguments as usual.
he has any suited ace and pocket pairs 44+ - maybe a JTs or QTs or KQ

He did 3bet 77 once

Never has QQ+ as this player would never just call the 3bet.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:10 AM   #12
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

I'd tank check to evaluate. Probably folding to his jam. As already said, I think a Hero jam is called by better, for the most part.

While described as loose pre, not much to go on post. How did he call the flop, quickly, thinking, etc.?
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #13
shorn7
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Re: Value jam turn? 2/5 NL

In a 3! pot, I would have sized up more on the flop, say $210-$225. Then that actually makes the turn even easier. I would also check/shove there as we can be pretty sure he rarely has AA-QQ here (as those hands should be clear 4!, and we block AA and QQ) and I would think TT would raise this flop. Lot of combos of KQ and KJ in his range that might bluff this turn if checked too and then we can GII.
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