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Old 02-15-2019, 08:04 PM   #1
Badreg2017
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V takes weird line.

1/3. V is, 30’s white guy and the effective stack with about $750. He has been playing very loose pre. He has made some $100 or so bluffs, but nothing too wild. Seems somewaht gambly. We are both on the list for 2/5. H has between a loose and tag image.

3 limps, V overlimps HJ. H $30 with KK in the Sb and all call.

Pot:$150.

Flop 246r.

H $60, folds to V who calls.

Pot: $270.

Turn 5r.

X, V $50, H calls.

Pot: $370.

River J.

X, V ships for $620 H? I’m calling AA and JJ here against this V. He’s seems thinking enough to realized I’m usually capped at one pair. AA and KK are admittedly pretty similar but A3 at least blocks some straights, A3o is definitely in his range. I admit checking turn only to fold this river seems like a bad plan.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 02-15-2019 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:13 PM   #2
DooDooPoker
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Re: V takes weird line.

You need to check this flop or bomb it. 40% pot accomplishes nothing.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:37 PM   #3
Minatorr
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Re: V takes weird line.

Probably just folding based off the limited info, if you call KK here you basically fold nothing otr. 99/1010 and QQ are the same thing here. Plus vs a near 2x pot overshove our MDF isnt very high and we dont have to defend much of our range to be remain unexploitable, and as you point out AA/JJ are a little better to call off.

He has a lot of straights, sets, and two pair here that could be shoving for value. He’d have to turn many many pairs into bluffs and be floating you extremely wide otf before you even start to cross breakeven territory

Turn is fine.

Flop not sure how i feel about this sizing. What are others’ thoughts? Kind of a weird spot given dynamics. We arent betting much of our range here otf, we have no sets, no straights, so we really only have overpairs and the occasional AK/AQ bdfd. Not sure we are even supposed to cbet AQ bdfd, might be closer to a x/f than anything 5-way vs calling stations who have a lot of hands to defend here otf and many nutted hands

I dont think checking is right against these droolers, though.

Last edited by Minatorr; 02-15-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:43 AM   #4
Badreg2017
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Re: V takes weird line.

Alright well I thought it was really close in real time but I decided to fold. I asked V if he would show and he turned over A6.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:28 AM   #5
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Re: V takes weird line.

Nice bluff by Villain. Now you know how to play vs him
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:11 AM   #6
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017 View Post
1/3. V is, 30ís white guy and the effective stack with about $750. He has been playing very loose pre. He has made some $100 or so bluffs, but nothing too wild. Seems somewaht gambly. We are both on the list for 2/5. H has between a loose and tag image.

3 limps, V overlimps HJ. H $30 with KK in the Sb and all call.

Pot:$150.

Flop 246r.

H $60, folds to V who calls.

Pot: $270.

Turn 5r.

X, V $50, H calls.

Pot: $370.

River J.

X, V ships for $620 H? Iím calling AA and JJ here against this V. Heís seems thinking enough to realized Iím usually capped at one pair. AA and KK are admittedly pretty similar but A3 at least blocks some straights, A3o is definitely in his range. I admit checking turn only to fold this river seems like a bad plan.
Pottish bet on the flop. You gave gutshots odds to call and stack you.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:35 AM   #7
DooDooPoker
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Re: V takes weird line.

Also calling AA but not calling KK doesn’t make sense since they are effectively the same hand. This is also why we should be raising hands like low suited connectors from the SB at a non zero frequency in theory. Otherwise we always have overpairs here.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:16 PM   #8
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Re: V takes weird line.

Actually KK is better than AA now that I think about it because you don’t want to block Villains Ax off suit hands. Villain is more likely to call Ax then Kx so we would rather have KK to weaken his range.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:22 PM   #9
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Re: V takes weird line.

I mean this is the definition of a polarized range... Would he take this line w 3X?


I think not, I think he would want some value with a reasonable bet, seems like 78 or a bluff


Would he even play 78os pf for 30 ? idk there may be very few value combos here by the river


I think you can call , I did see results so I may be biased but I love when loose players polarize their ranges OTR bc the ratio of value to bluffs is generally weighted towards bluffs, especially if they are capable of turning hands that have SDV into bluffs, ( which most players don't at 1/2) but this is 1/3 and sounds like a gambly 2/5 player very capable of making moves
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:25 PM   #10
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Re: V takes weird line.

also , I would bet bigger OTF, perhaps your line induced this play OTR

always consider how your opponent is perceiving your hand strength , you bet tiny OTF and then x/c'd the turn and then x'd the river
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:33 PM   #11
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post

He has a lot of straights, sets, and two pair here that could be shoving for value. .
I disagree with this, on a 4 liner board .. overbetting a set or 2P is so bad, I think is range is confined to some (3X and 78); I do feel he would just bet between 3/4 - psb with his 3X bc he would want to get paid, It's obvious that this board is not a great one for H's range so he shouldn't expect this bet to get called very often


the sizing is so big that his range becomes super polarized
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:21 PM   #12
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
I disagree with this, on a 4 liner board .. overbetting a set or 2P is so bad, I think is range is confined to some (3X and 78); I do feel he would just bet between 3/4 - psb with his 3X bc he would want to get paid, It's obvious that this board is not a great one for H's range so he shouldn't expect this bet to get called very often


the sizing is so big that his range becomes super polarized
But then shouldn’t a very advanced Villain always use polarized sizing for a merged range in hope of getting Hero called?
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:15 PM   #13
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
But then shouldnít a very advanced Villain always use polarized sizing for a merged range in hope of getting Hero called?
maybe some V's are capable of doing this, not very likely at these stakes imo
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:23 PM   #14
Minatorr
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
I disagree with this, on a 4 liner board .. overbetting a set or 2P is so bad, I think is range is confined to some (3X and 78); I do feel he would just bet between 3/4 - psb with his 3X bc he would want to get paid, It's obvious that this board is not a great one for H's range so he shouldn't expect this bet to get called very often


the sizing is so big that his range becomes super polarized
Yeah youíre right... now i think about it i think heís probably super polarized here to nuts or air. I dont think he ever really shoves two pair. I think itís just a please fold or i have the nuts and i want to look like im bluffing. That said, i do think sets are much more likely than two pair to jam here since a set is almost like the nuts. Obv straights are the highest frequency of overshoves
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:17 AM   #15
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Re: V takes weird line.

Two pair or a set would also be the effective nuts, though, on a board like this against someone who raised in the SB and then cbets small, c/c a supersmall turn bet and checks again on the river. But OP basically announced he was gonna fold his entire range to a big riverbet, so I have no idea why villain would ever shove the nuts in this spot. I would even go as far to say there is no way he's putting you on an overpair, but based on his holding I'm probably wrong about that.

Anyway, villain's line would look totally FOS to me, but then again I might be influenced by having seen the result.
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #16
tmo1120
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Re: V takes weird line.

I remember Daniel Negreanu saying … " if things don't make sense, I just call "

this guy bets less than 1/4 pot OTT and then almost 2X's the river... lol I know we saw the results but this line is absurd
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:39 PM   #17
Minatorr
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown View Post
Two pair or a set would also be the effective nuts, though, on a board like this against someone who raised in the SB and then cbets small, c/c a supersmall turn bet and checks again on the river. But OP basically announced he was gonna fold his entire range to a big riverbet, so I have no idea why villain would ever shove the nuts in this spot. I would even go as far to say there is no way he's putting you on an overpair, but based on his holding I'm probably wrong about that.

Anyway, villain's line would look totally FOS to me, but then again I might be influenced by having seen the result.
Two pair is effectively the nuts vs this line but imo people just arent overshoving 2x almsot pot with two pair on a 4-liner simply bc one card completes the straight, especially recs
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:17 PM   #18
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Re: V takes weird line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Also calling AA but not calling KK doesnít make sense since they are effectively the same hand. This is also why we should be raising hands like low suited connectors from the SB at a non zero frequency in theory. Otherwise we always have overpairs here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Actually KK is better than AA now that I think about it because you donít want to block Villains Ax off suit hands. Villain is more likely to call Ax then Kx so we would rather have KK to weaken his range.
wat
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