I know that the whole idea of 4!-folding PF in 1-2 game is generally absurd, and I don't think I've ever intentionally done so in such a game before. It happened the other day though, against a very known older gentleman that I play with regularly.

Stacks: Hero $440, V covers.

Hero opens KK UTG to $12. V next to act 3! $35. Button who is passive with about a $200 stack calls in the CO. Don't know much about him, don't recognize him, doesn't seem like he's a regular player. I think he's somewhat irrelevant to the discussion other than how his field call of the 3! affects my decision.

So for the main V here, he's an older gentleman who's a regular. He's not an OMC my any means, but he has what would be considered a standard 3! range for most 1/2 players. From what I've seen out of him over time, his 3! range is JJ+, AKs/AKo/some AQ combos. His 3! range can sometimes be even tighter than that, which I suspected to be the case here when I open UTG and he 3! next to act. V views me as a TAGish reg, and he knows that I'm going to have a pretty strong range when I open UTG.

So here's where I have questions about my line of thinking. It gets back to me, and against this specific V I would sometimes flat KK. With the cold caller between us, I felt it was too dangerous to flat and play KK OOP 3-ways. Also I know from history with V and from what he's told me on numerous occasions, he does not slowplay AA.

So I decided to 4! very small to $75 (normally I'd make it about $120). My thought process was that sizing does not matter against this opponent, he's going to 5! AA literally 100% of the time, and he's going to call with the rest of his continuing range. I felt that with a small 4! I define his hand to very specific holdings. On top of that, I felt that if I just flatted his 3! and saw a flop, I'd end up calling at least one street on pretty much any non-A high flop. This V uses pretty decent bet sizing post, so in a $105 3-way pot I knew I would be facing a $70-$80 flop bet from him. So in the end I felt is was cheaper for me to put in a small 4! and fold to a 5! than is would be to call and then have to call at least one street post flop without knowing where I was in the hand. Of course by taking this line I'm folding any equity that I have in the hand, but is that equity worth more than taking an exploitable line to define his range? After I 4!, V 5! jams and both the field caller and I fold. V obviously shows me AA.

I usually don't like the concept of betting or raising for information, but given the knowledge of this specific V, was my line of thinking of a small 4! and folding to his 5! legitimate, or should I just be flatting his 3! if I intend on 4!-folding?

You should just raise to however much you think he'd call with the rest of his 3-Bet range (JJ,QQ,AK). If he's calling $120 with these then you're getting more value in the long run and you can still fold to his 5-bet so you get the same information.

Vs. JJ/AKo/AQs+ your hand is a 63% fav, so I think 4-b valuing is correct from a pure math perspective. Other considerations are:

1) weighting of those hands within his 3-b range;
2) sizing of the 4-b;
3) how would he play AQs+/AK on a blank flop if u flatted pre.

I actually follow your logic and like the way you played it. If he flats your 4! you know your KK is likely good and when he 5! jams you can feel comfortable folding.

great read on a player and great follow thru!!!!!

these little edges add up over time

What are your thoughts on how V would perceive V2's flatting of a 3! in the CO? To what degree if any would it affect his flop behavior? If it's going to slow him down at all, it may be worth just flatting for set mining potential. 23:82 isn't what we need to call for that, but given the 3! and stack sizes, IO may be on our side overall.