1/2 NL

V is a solid player, aggressive, raises and 3-bets pretty wide but isn't too often out of line. In general very active, not at all afraid to bluff under almost any circumstance, but not reckless.
V knows hero plays tight but also knows I'll use my image to bluff with some frequency.

200$ eff.

V +3 raises to 12.
Hero calls on the button with 66

Flop (26) 973
V makes a standard c-bet of 20.
Hero calls.

Turn (66) 973 K
V starts to make a bet but then checks. I can't tell if he genuinely changed his mind or if it was intentional.

Hero bets 40. V calls.

On the turn I think my best line would have been to check back the turn and snap off any non club non ace river. If the river is an ace/club consider calling but probably folding. Basically this is where I started to misplay the hand; a king is not folding, there aren't a ton of 9's or 7's in his range to be folding out, I thought my hand was good on the flop, it's probably still good now. The only reason to bet here would be to avoid seeing a scary river card.

River (126) 973 K 4

Villain puts in the remaining ~130.
Hero...?

I think this should be a pretty easy call. In fact, I think the expert play would be to bet the turn just to make this call on the river, because it looks to me like a busted draw, but I'm interested in what others think of how I played the hand all around.

I would check behind turn and decide whether to call river bets.

Agree you don't fold better on the turn. You might get draws to call, but draws actually have a ton equity since they mostly include 2 overs. When you consider the equity of draws and the possibility you are far behind made hands, the best use of position isn't to bet and try to bluff better / get slight value from draws, it's to check and keep the pot small knowing V has a good amount of equity (if not the best hand) going to river.

But I can also see the case for betting the turn. Depending on how wide you think V is pre-flop (can he just have a ton of unpaired overs here?), betting the turn can't be too bad. Getting villain to fold a whole host of random Ax, Qx, Jx, Tx, 8x, etc., is good.

So it's close, but I probably keep the pot small.

As played, eh, I dunno. We built a huge pot on the turn. I don't think it's as easy a call as you're saying. What busted draws does he have? AcQc, AcJc, AcTc and maybe a few others? He can certainly have an oddly played KcQc, AcKc, Kx, and way weirder hands that are just totally spazing that actually beat you including 9x and 7x.

River decision is going to be based on what you think his pre-flop range is, which you don't really include in the OP. Does he have T8, tons of suited hands, JT, J8, 86s, etc? Then yes, there are a ton of whiffed draws and I'd snap. Otherwise, it may be a fold.

But yeah, I think you decide turn and river plays based on his pre-flop range, which we don't know. What is it?

The wider it is, the more inclined I am to bet the turn (get V to fold out a bunch of hands with 6 outs twice, as well as capture value from draws) and call the river (V can have a bunch of whiffed draws if he is pretty loose pre... otherwise, not so much).

wut?


56 gets there. 44 gets there 74 gets there. Kx gets there. He is a LAG and you have no way of knowing where he is at if he is willing to shove a pot sized bet on the river with air.

You don't have any reads. This is just bingo.

Villain is a solid player, and maybe a solid Hollywood actor, too.

But here is the larger question?

Where can I find a game where someone even considers putting in $202 over every street with a pair of sixes?

Ok, so his preflop raising range probably includes all suited broadway, all pairs, some suited connectors, maybe some suited gappers, some unsuited broadways. T8 is possible but not as likely, he's probably raising it some of the time. J8 even less likely, and so on.

So he does have a lot of whiffed overs, which provides some reason for betting the turn. Especially since he's out of position. If he was IP he just might call his whiffed overs and then consider bluffing the river if checked to, but OOP, he can't really do this.

Basically, there are definitely a lot of whiffed draws in his range, and based on being at the table, seeing him play for the past few hours, he's definitely not spazzing with 9x or 7x type hands. In the end his shoving the river makes no sense, it could be a weirdly played king, but I think it's so rare.

I still feel like betting the turn is not great, though, or least not without a continuing plan in the case he calls. I don't REALLY think that the river is an "easy" call, but when it comes down to it, nothing about his line makes any sense except that he was on a draw and is bluffing for the pot.

This hand just bothered me after the fact, I didn't have it all thought out in advance, which is something I'm working on in general, in this case the action on the turn is where I should have been making all these decisions. I still kind of think bet/folding the turn and then snapping/checking back a safe river is the best line, but I am somewhat biased since it was my hand. Another part of me is telling myself that by betting the turn I'm turning my hand into a bluff in a place where I shouldn't be doing so, and am basically betting to prevent facing a bet on a scary river. Or more simply, when I bet the turn I was thinking like it was a bluff because I wanted a fold; this is obviously bad, which is why I'm going over this hand.

No one is going to condone this line.

The LLSNL forum is more about developing standard lines, bet sizing, etc.

Hero calls are extremely hard to analyze in this format. I'd need to be sitting at your table to give you any legitimate feedback in this spot.

fwiw, I like your bet on the turn. We charge draws, and we get 7x to fold.

I would fold the flop.
As played I would over bet turn.
Fold river

I would rather raise the flop than bet the turn.

As played, check turn.

As played, fold river. You can make a hero call, but this doesn't seem to be the spot. You don't rep much, but he must expect you to have at least a pair, yet he is willing to put it all in on the river. Do you usually fold easily? Does he expect it?

I like your suggested turn line better than the one you took.

River...It would help some if we defined his preflop raising range a bit more. I'm not going to be surprised when V tables 7x.

Really, though, 7x??? I just don't see how villain could possibly be holding 7x or 9x after shoving the river, unless he's spazzing, and I'm positive he's not spazzing based on being at the table and knowing how he plays.

Am I missing something? 7x just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I considered raising the flop, but if I raise the flop and he calls (which he probably will, knowing him) I have to be done with the hand. I prefer calling and seeing what happens on the turn.

He could honestly think I have A high and was just floating the flop and bluffing the K on the turn, which I could. If I had a 9 or 7 I don't know how he would expect me to play it, but the way he probably sees it, I either have nothing or I actually do have the K (or rarely a set), and more often I have nothing. The thing is, if I have "at least a pair", unless it's a the K it doesn't really change much, because he's not shoving a 9x or 7x for value here.

So when it comes to "folding easily", I'm not really sure what you mean.