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Ugly spot with overpair Ugly spot with overpair

03-05-2014 , 01:14 PM
1/2. I have about $150 and except for a couple guys with 300-ish, I have the rest of the table covered. It's a feeder table to a deeper stacked main game. Most players are very loose-passive. I have been mostly card dead and haven't been raising much, although one or two players might have played with me before and know that I don't always play it straightforward.

I picked up Q Q UTG +1

UTG limped and I raised it to $10. This was a pretty standard raise size to get 1-2 callers. Instead, SIX people called including the blinds, the UTG limper, the button, and a couple mid/late position players.

($70) Flop: 10 10 3

First question: Do you c-bet this flop?

I'll give the rest of the hand after we talk about the flop for a bit.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 03:30 PM
Six way? Bet $40 and mostly fold if raised. If you just check here your mostly going to be hating life later because when a villain does bet you will have no idea if they have TX or a worse pair.

If you bet and get called check most turns and see what develops. Ideally you want a check back on turn and then you can bet/fold river for value. If you get one villain who is loose enough to call flop with lots of worse pairs, then bet/fold turn.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 03:58 PM
Yea b/f $40 seems good.

Raise more PF. The fact that $10 raises have been getting 1-2 callers doesn't mean we should make it $10. We have a limper. Make it $15.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 04:15 PM
$15 more often than not will just take it down pre. It probably wouldn't have in this hand, but I couldn't have known that.

I actually bet $50 on the flop. One player goes all-in for $98 and another calls all-in for slightly less. Everyone else folded. The big blind showed me his cards before he folded. Two jacks.

So now there's $70 pre + my $50 + $100 shove + $100 shove = $320.

It costs me $50 to see two more cards. I'm getting almost 6.5:1. Yeah I'm beat but I'm feeling awful pot committed.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:05 PM
So you need to call another $48 in this spot?

Yeah I guess I'm calling it and mucking my hand face down when no Q comes on turn or river and watch T9 drag in a big pot. Oh well.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:23 PM
Bet $10 on the flop. If more than one person calls you are beat.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:24 PM
I probably would not c-bet very often with short/med stacks behind than can make me fold. If you are going to bet here then just go with $22 or something ... I still see it as a spew from EP to do this at 1-2 against 6 opponents. You are just as likely to take it down with 'any' bet over $20 as you are a 'standard' c-bet. You have to use your radar here if 3-bet (provided no one flats) to see if you want to continue ... and how.

I want to see where the T is and try to spike a Q on Turn cheaper than $100!! You may get a free card too.

If you hadnt been the PF raiser then you could maybe bet more OTF, but you are still opening a door you dont want to walk through with so many shorter stacks to act yet. Save your chips c/c or c/f if flatted by another unless cheap. GL
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 06:06 PM
For those who are cbetting ~$40ish, you realize that if we get called in just one place (and why anyone with a T with these stack sizes would raise, or even donk for that matter, is beyond me) that the pot will be $150 with us only having $100 left, right?

Gpreflopsetupatotallygrossspot,imoG
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
I have been mostly card dead and haven't been raising much, although one or two players might have played with me before and know that I don't always play it straightforward.

I picked up Q Q UTG +1

UTG limped and I raised it to $10. This was a pretty standard raise size to get 1-2 callers. Instead, SIX people called including the blinds...
So many people slow play trips here I enjoy checking the flop and hoping for a free chance to spike ott. Often times you also get a free exit when there is a bet and a call back to you. This advice is for 1/2 of course.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
$15 more often than not will just take it down pre. It probably wouldn't have in this hand, but I couldn't have known that.

I actually bet $50 on the flop. One player goes all-in for $98 and another calls all-in for slightly less. Everyone else folded. The big blind showed me his cards before he folded. Two jacks.

So now there's $70 pre + my $50 + $100 shove + $100 shove = $320.

It costs me $50 to see two more cards. I'm getting almost 6.5:1. Yeah I'm beat but I'm feeling awful pot committed.
this is a classic example of overestimating our equity.

Yes, we are getting almost 6.5 to 1.

But what are the odds that neither player has a Ten in their hand?

Our equity in this spot is somewhere around 9%.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Bet $10 on the flop. If more than one person calls you are beat.
I really like this (even though it's probably somewhat sarcastic). I take back my advice to cbet $40.

It's so hard to get called by worse. Plus, stacks are really shallow.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaYu
I really like this (even though it's probably somewhat sarcastic). I take back my advice to cbet $40.

It's so hard to get called by worse. Plus, stacks are really shallow.
I was 100% serious. If they raise, they have Tx. If two people call, they have Tx. You aren't getting called by two pocket pairs. If one person calls, play some pokers.
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:44 PM
Raise to 15 pre maybe 16-17. Yea I'd bet a little less than half pot here. And shut down most of the time ott depending on villain and sizing
Ugly spot with overpair Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:46 PM
Wtf would you bet 40 into 6 ppl on this flop? Are we bluffing? 20-25 might get a pp or stubborn ace to peel one
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