1/2

V is a middle aged Chinese guy. Been playing a long time and obviously tired. Loose and gambley. Has bet sizing tells. Will bet his draws. Will bluff but typically for 1/3-1/2PSB's.

Hero has been playing TAG, raising a lot of hands in position and taking down pots pre and with c bets. Double barrelled a few times and won those pots too. Haven't showed down in a long long time. Then some hands come up that shift the dynamics:

Hand 1:

Hero raises 88 on button to $22 behind limpers, 3 callers including V in BB. Flop 744, EP limper donks $20, other limper folds, hero raises to $120, V gives a speech and CC's, CO folds. Turn K, V checks, hero checks. River: K. V shoves for $300, hero folds, V shows a 4 (claims he has pocket 4's).

Hand 2:

4 limpers to hero on button who raises QT to $22, 4 callers including nit in SB. Flop comes Q52 and hero c bets $60, Nit and limper calls. Turn 7, checked to hero who checks for pot control (with plan to fold river if Nit bets into him for a decent amount). River is a 6 and it is checked to hero who bets $100, Nit calls, other guy folds and MHIG. A buz goes around the table, ''you raise with that ****!'', ''professional player over here''. Blah blah blah.

Hand 3 (an orbit later)

2 limpers including a short stack in CO with $36, hero makes it $19 with 99 (with the idea that short stack might reopen the betting if we get a lot of callers), 3 callers including V in BB, shortie shoves, hero makes it $120, V calls. Flop K73, checked to hero who bets $120 V ships for around $500, hero folds. V has 76 and wins the side and the main pot against shorties AJ UI. Ouch!

OTTH (The next orbit)

Bunch of limpers, Hero ($775) has AA on button and makes it $22, 4 callers including V (covers) in BB who remarks ''you just love to raise your button, huh.''

($103) Flop: 985

V donks $50, 2 callers including muppet with $200behind and short stack with $50,

Hero??? Plan???

Comments on the other hands?

Man this seems like a lot different 1/2 game then I play regularly in Chicago. Is everyone pretty deep or can buy in for $300? Our standard raises are $7-$12.

Hand 1:

You have more knowledge then me on this person but I'm not sure I'm ever really bumping it up to $120 there after the flop unless its extremely specific read on this person. I play a pretty TAG style. I'm not folding his $20 lead but I think I flat or size better with a re-raise. You say he's pretty wild and when we get called there raising $120 it doesn't help us much.

Hand 2:

Standard with the nit as one of your callers plus your freerolling on the turn. I like the check back. I get called weird things like that all the time.

Hand 3:

I'm not a big fan of getting 60bb in pre with 9's. I get that your trying to isolate and make the V pay to play. Flop I check call a bet and go from there.

Hand 4:

Calling to me is out of the question. There are so many bad turn cards. You either go with it and make a raise to like 250 or you muck it. But I'm not mucking it lol so to me raise is the only option. So many of Villain's weird combinations are in play.

It's a tough spot but I'm probably laying this down against three opponents. There's hardly any good cards on the turn so you'll be folding turn way too often to make a call profitable, and if you raise you have to fold if he shoves, and if he calls you are certain to get your two drawers in as well. Then you are just going to dodge more than half the deck as well as hoping that V is FOS. Not happy stacking off this deep in this spot, so getting rid of the hand before I put in more money.

I agree with this. I didn't see the stack sizes when I originally commented

Are you guys serious about folding? I see the decision as being between calling and raise/folding. Is this guy the sort of player to jam with QsJs here?

I'm raising here and not folding against the V that just shipped his stack w/76 on a K73 flop or one of the other V's who we will be committed against with our flop raise.
The fact that V donked otf is something to give some thought to, but I think we have a large portion of his donk bet/stack off vs hero range beat.

If you are heads up this has a lot of merit, but with two short stacks in between who appear to be on draws and are never folding when the action gets to them, your aces are going 4 way to the river for the main pot and you are shoving an extra $500 into a dry side pot against a player who will play any two and could legitimately have you drawing dead here. Don't get fancy against fish, wait for the right spot.

Just to make sure, Hero is $775 effective with the Chinese guy, right.

Assuming this, with $250 in the pot before it gets to Hero, we can raise to $250.

This makes any turn easy to play with less than a PSB left behind.

Jam I respect your disagreement with my line here, but what alternative are you suggesting?
Personally I see this being a great spot. We are against two shorter stacks who we most likely have beat and a V who has just recently exhibited the willingness to play a massive pot with less than TP. This guy just put over $600 into a pot where he faced a 4bet pre and a sizable cbet otf with a bluff catcher. I don't feel like I'm getting fancy here it just feels to me that we have the best hand here and can definitely get called by worse.

I agree that it is possible to get called by worse and also possible we have the best hand now. That being said, am I investing 350 Bbs into a pot with 3 villains just because I might be ahead? I'm not personally. I think doing so regardless of the flop allows a terrible fish to play perfectly against you. Why would he fold atc pre if you are going to stack off 350 Bbs to him regardless of the flop? This is one of the worst flops for our hand here, it hits his range hard and gives even his draws huge equity. If the guy really is shoving with top pair, im certain we can find a better spot where we are heads up and there are many fewer combos that beat us. I would suggest that this is not the time to take a stand.

Please never raise here. AA is almost a bluff catcher at this point. I think calling and re-evaluating turn is best.

Your raising range here should be nutted as *** (sets, straights or gutshot NFD). AA is just such a bad hand this deep.

kekeeke I agree under normal circumstances against most 1-2 players you are correct AA is a bad hand in this spot, however this V just one orbit ago was willing to gii w/less than TP when we showed a lot of strength. This V views us as a bluffy lag and shipped his stack w/a bluff catcher based on that read and got us to fold the best hand.
Kookie pointed out that this guy is at the tail end of a long session and he is loose and gambly. I agree its never comfortable to get ai this deep w/one pair, but against players who are shipping it like this guy did last orbit we are going to be throwing away the best hand in big pots too often and missing out on value spots as well.
Tired Asian=Its time to gambool

I'm not happy about having the As

Buy in is $50-$500

Yep. V could jam with NFD+overs or a combo draw. For sure. He knows I can lay down.

I think committing this deep here is baaaad.

Where do you play? I'm going to Chicago to play at River's casino. Any Intel on that game?

Even is V had just one 4, he's ahead OTF. Checks, calls a EP bet and your raise. Shoves river.
Maybe raises need to be sized higher to get only 1 or 2 callers?
I think I'm just calling the flop, too easy to be behind at least one of the 3 others.
If I called flop and there was no raise. I'm betting turn. AP I check.
Too easy to be behind, the river is a fold. Nice that he shows for confirmation.

Want fewer callers? Raise higher.
I'm with you on the same plan the whole way.
Shocking that a NIT will call without TP. Can only put him on JJ, TT?


Still going 4+ to the flop. Might be +EV, but sure makes for high variance.
I do want to play with V who calls $120 preflop with 76s, hits 2nd pair and ships it. Clearly he gives you no credit.



Now we're 5 to the flop, and if he's got 76 here we are crushed. I don't like to be MUBSY, but over 350BB deep, I'm not stacking off with a pair.
I'm more willing to stack off 100BB HU with the overpair, but I don't think I'm getting it in at once on the flop. V would have to be terribad to be behind in that case.

Since it's a 1/2 PSB and we are on the BTN, I'll call here and re-evaluate. I'm probably folding to much aggression on a wet board mutltway.

I don't like calling on the flop, to fold the turn or river. Maybe optimistic to think I'll be able to check behind on the turn, and call another 1/2 PSB on the river (if we don't see any spades, or 6/7).

Yeah. Warning sirens went off in my head when he CC'ed the flop. Kind of weird for him to only have one 4 to shove the river. 44 and KX make sense, though I kinda expect he would donk out with a flush draw (saw this exact scenario earlier in the night).

I raised the flop because I was pretty certain the EP limper would not have bet out here with a 4, 77, etc. Most likely he has a 7 or a flush draw. I raised hoping everyone would just go away.

Probably should have increased my raise sizing pf. But the standard at the table was $10-$12 and I was already going $22. Sometimes you either get three or four callers or everbody folds.


Point taken
I have a lot of history with this Nit. He sees me as maniacal at times. In the hand I was thinking JJ,TT, but I guess 99,88 are possible. Actually considered checking through the river, but I was pretty sure neither have a queen, so I decided a small value bet was in order. Not having to show my hand has value also.
Yeah, lol. I was quite surprised he was capable of shoving here. It is quite a good play. He snap shoved after I bet which tingled my spidey senses. Still, I don't see how I could have found a call there, knowing what I knew about V up to that point. He really did own me here.

hand 3 is pretty laughable

I know it's not really a multiple hand post, but

Hand 1: Just call flop.

Hand 2: I'd consider checking behind flop. I'm wanting to keep the pot small, and it's already huge. We also just have top pair weak kicker, so I don't really want to stack off or target 3 streets. There aren't any draws, and only a turn K or A are bad. I think it's really close, and checking and betting are OK, but I will often opt to check. By the way, the hand played out great for you, for sure... but I do think it's quite unusual that you get 2 flop callers and then a river caller in a 250BB pot and win with your hand.

Hand 3: Too much going on, not gonna touch this one : )

The real hand:

Looks like a trivial call. Stack sizes are key. Let's not get 400BB in on the flop.

Call and play a turn. Sure, a lot of bad cards. Having position helps.

Don't see how we're doing anything but calling flop. Raising is gross this deep as we can't continue vs. a 3-bet even if V has a decent amount of combo draws in his range, and folding is too weak as we still have position and a hand that rates to be ahead fairly often. Let's see a turn.

You play in some amazing games...

Hand 1: I'd call. Or raise smaller if the plan is to turn your hand into a bluff. Don't like putting in 1/3 stack and then folding on a favorable runnout, but probably prudent given action and speech.

Hand 2: To get 2 callers on the flop and have your hand be good is amusing. I'd probably play it the same way. River is very thin, but I'd go for it as well, especially if you have a FOS image. nh

Hand 3: I think you butchered this one. Pot sized raise preflop would've been to $165. Since you are facing different stack sizes, hard to know your ideal raise size but it was at least to $165, maybe more. Once you decided on this move, you can't be planning to fold when you only flop 1 overcard. Putting in $240 out of an effective stack size of $620 and then folding was bad. Putting in a lot of $ and then folding the best hand is probably the most expensive mistake we can make this game. I get it was a dry flop. You needed to make it enough pre that you wouldn't be faced with a tough decision such as this later, like $200 or so.

Main hand: Given V & your image, you are trivially committed against the other 2 players. Against V you've got a 7.5 SPR, he's wild and thinks you are FOS. I can't see folding against V as long as we keep his range wide and the runout doesn't suck. So, I'd call, but not really looking to fold this one.

Yeah. pf was not planned out at all, in the unlikely case that someone else called. I was, of course, expecting to get HU with the shortstacker with all that lovely dead money in there.

Surpised nobody has mentioned it, but hero betting $120 into a $333 pot on flop is LOL bad. Pretty sure that is what induced his shove. With a big hand it might have been a good line.

I need to go back and read some more PNLHE re: planning, pot commitment, etc.

getting in almost 400bb with a pair of aces is lol bad. min raise/fold the flop pot control the turn and bet/fold river on non 4 to straight cards

really felt like an easy raise/gii vs this specific villain, esp after the madness in hand 3, but i did some calculations and on this board texture there are soo many hands that have us crushed. imo it depends whether or not villain is willing to gii here with stuff like T9o, which is actually a real possibility.

but since we have position, and As, i agree. calling seems the way to go.
raise/folding has to be our nutworst line btw

Agree 100%, r/f is gross.